Comments on: Jacob’s Tithing Vow

By: Ato

Ato — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:54:44 +0000

Very interesting read, I just wanted to know, for those who say that since Abraham offered the tithe before the Law so Abraham’s tithe would be required of the church would they therefore say that circumcision is also required of the church since it was also performed by Abraham before the Law was given? Some may say yes, seeing that the new testament circumcision that is required is that of the heart and a spiritual one but if circumcision of the flesh symbolized the circumcision of the heart that was to come about, would the tithing demonstrated in the old testament not be some form of a foreshadow, some “type” maybe? I remember Jesus is referred to as the “first-fruit of the dead” in some new testament epistles. any views on this?

By: Liam

Liam — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:26:31 +0000

Hi Emeka,
I’ve followed your posts over the last few days and Jared has mostly commented on the majority of points I going to raise so I’ll try and avoid doubling up on his thoughts.
Firstly I think you raised a valid argument in regards to interpretation. The fancy name for this is Hermeneutics and hermeneutics follows certain principles, one of which you have highlighted i.e. consider carefully the most obvious and literal interpretation. However I’m struggling to see how the full and immediate inheritance took place in that one event in Gen 28. It doesn’t seem to me to be a good fit for this passage.
Jared rightly mentions that Jacob’s monument doesn’t necessarily signify the completion of the promise and my own view of this is that it was an act of worship and consecration by Jacob. A monument doesn’t really signify Jacob’s possession of the land any more than the Dome of the Rock signifies possession to the house of Ishmael and Esau. However I might go as far as saying that Jacob took hold of the spiritual title deed to the land even if physical possession was not yet a reality.
There are some other problems with the immediate possession interpretation:
At what point does the possession clearly take place? I’d say after Moses when Israel (Jacob) took physical possession.
Why was the land still called the Promised Land if Jacob had already taken it?
Also I can’t agree that God always ‘makes things very clear,’ nor can I take the view that one man’s name or the noun ‘I’ means necessarily just that one man. Jacob became Israel and Israel is now the people of Jacob and no longer just the man Jacob. Take also Abraham’s seed numbering the stars, he only had two children.
Finally God’s promises are not always fulfilled immediately. Again Abraham discovered this.
In conclusion my personal take on this is that Jacob received the spiritual title deed to the land in Gen 28. i.e. It was given to him as an inheritance, and before God he was and is, the rightful heir. The actual physical possession part has still got a question mark over its complete fulfillment. I personally feel this is still yet future. I think we all know the consequences if Israel today trod every square inch the land that was promised!

By: Jared Bartholomew

Jared Bartholomew — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:53:12 +0000

Emeka,

Just because Jacob put a few rocks up and poured oil upon it, does not mean that he inherited or received that land yet. A majority of people would agree with me that no one in Abraham's family inherited any portion of that land until the Israelites conquered the Canaanites and then purified the land on top of it.

It seems that you are very particular about standing by every word in that passage because you believe "if" means what it says. But if you read that passage, it says, "the land on which you lie I will give". If we are all about following the jot and tittle here, why didn't God say, "I am giving it to you"?

- jared

By: Emeka

Emeka — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:23:56 +0000

A lot of people make various excuses to justify their tithing or misleading others to tithe, be it Abraham’s tithe, or Jacobs vow, most are aware Christians should not tithe and those bringing forth much arguments to defend tithing are equally aware, as we see from tithing it is very obvious from the New Testament that Christians are not under the Law(Christ magnified the Law brought more spiritual sense brought in the weightier matters of the Law Justice, faith, love).
Those that decide to remain under the Law should remember they have no excuses to exclude any part of the Law:
No money, only Agricultural products from the land of Israel, and to observe the entire Law as a bulk unit that can not be separated one from the other, in other words if you tithe you must observe sabbath, you must observe the sacrificing of rams holy days etc:
And in Numbers 18 if read well you will notice that receiving tithes is a covenant of salt unbreakable nontransferable between God and the Levites, not to talk of how tithing makes the tither feel self righteous, how can we know the right sabbath or sixth day when it is Nighttime here and daybreak in some parts of the world? some see the new moon today some see it the next day, so which day can we call the sabbath,
Jared, I compliment you greatly on bringing the true Word of God out in the open, I am also writing a book on: Tithing a Curse or a blessing for Christians.
Keep up the good work God Bless.

By: Emeka

Emeka — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:14:55 +0000

Yes Sir, You are correct but let us take a moment and peruse the promise,
I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. All Jacob had to do was receive it by faith, the Land was already his and his descendants would follow suit after him.
The moment Jacob came back, the land was his for the claiming, other wise he would not have the audacity to raise a pillar if it were not his, Jacob raised a pillar because the land was already his by promise.

God did not fulfill the Vow to Jacob through his descendants, God fulfilled the vow to Jacobs descendants through Jacob. Because the mere act of raising a pillar and anointing it, Jacob had already laid claim to the land before his descendants, just he was not populous enough to cover the land so it was reserved for the future generations.
God Bless.

By: Jared Bartholomew

Jared Bartholomew — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:02:10 +0000

Emeka,
Before i answer your question, I assume you also read the second part of this post here as well- http://www.tithing.com/blog/misconception-about-jacobs-tithing-vow/

You have a good question, but you are only reading Jacob’s vow. God’s vow said, “the land on which you lie I will give to YOU and your descendants.” How did God give Jacob the land since no one inherited it hundreds of years later? Shouldn’t God have said, “the land on which you lie i will give to your descendants only”?

Interesting how God fulfilled his vow specifically to Jacob through his descendants.

- Jared

By: Emeka

Emeka — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 04:05:29 +0000

Brethren, are we forgetting that Jacob’s vow went like this: ““If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God.”

And not like this: If God will be with me and my descendants, and keep me and my descendants in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God.”

How would a God who always made matters very clear collect tithes from the descendants of Jacob while Jacob said “I” and also “Come back to my fathers house” in singular, and a particular vow for a specific reason and condition.

The Israelites accepted the law Exodus 24:4-8 and God held them accountable for their acceptance not the vow of Jacob, do i stand corrected?

A study of the Holy Bible shows God makes out his markings clearly

By: Jared Bartholomew

Jared Bartholomew — Tue, 11 May 2010 14:03:17 +0000

Liam,
Good observation about Esau’s vow. I’ve been thinking of writing a conclusive article on this situation after hearing and discussing this with other people. If i do so, i will be sure to credit the point you have made there.

I also like how you said we think the word fulfilled means to re-label it as ‘a principle’ and place ourselves right back under it.

Thanks for you input.

- Jared
.-= steward´s last blog ..Bible Verses on Spirit Led Giving =-.

By: Liam Erickson

Liam Erickson — Tue, 11 May 2010 13:15:19 +0000

Nicely put, I wish I had read it before I commented on Part 1 of Misconceptions about Jacob’s tithe.

I liked the point about redeeming the tithe. I knew that the tithe could be redeemed but I didn’t know that it was done according to how a vow was redeemed – thanks for joining those dots!

If I could add a couple of other observations:

Jacob was on the run and seeking refuge. Initially he found that refuge in Laban but ultimately God would provide this refuge through the land promised to Jacob and the fact that He promised to establish Jacob and be his God. Even today Israel is pursued by his brother over his inheritance and true to God’s promise Jacob is in the land and not destroyed. (Remember Esau made some vows of his own and they carried on down through the generations also).

Getting back to Abraham and how some Christians hold him up as the tithing example that precedes the law. My observation is the tithe is a very Jewish thing. As mentioned in my previous post, my view is that Abraham’s tithe was a fore-shadow of the recognition that Israel was intended to have for their Messiah (but failed to do so). As Christians the application made for us is to have the FAITH that Abraham had in God, but sadly we place our focus on the tithe, claim that as our own, and run with that instead.

What is it about Christians love affair with the law? And when we are force to accept the law as being fulfilled we just re-label it as ‘a Principal’ and place ourselves right back under it again.

By: willis

willis — Sat, 01 May 2010 18:18:43 +0000

…………Jacob made a vow to God in Genesis 28, “of all that you give me, i will surely give a tenth back to you“.

…….Here’s the thing, Jacob never gave the tithe, nor was he capable of giving a tithe. Although Jacob was not capable of tithing in his life eventually he was able to do so through his children.

**************************

it may be a probable thing to say that jacob might have failed to give his tenth to God for sometime because of his nature as a human being that tend to fail. the examples of his short comings can be compared to Paul after his conversion to christianity.

Rom 7

15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin

even after his conversion he was wrought with miseries.

….but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

this is what we called the pull of the flesh battling against God’s commandment in our mind.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were not so perfect to submit themselves to a sinless nature of God.

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

if Jacob’s tithe was governed by his vow then that would be depended on faith.

Romans 4:5
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

it is not the Jacob’s tithe that was credited but his fulfillment of his vow through his faith!

it is true that tithe would be a useless giving if one was not governed by the elements of the spirit as that of jacob.

mathew 23:23
23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

can’t you see the requirements of the law, jacob’s vow which is his faith and the matters of the law, the faithfulness!

Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.