- 10% was not the minimum amount for Israel. They gave less than 10% at times. (Hebrews 7:4; Numbers 31:28-30)
- The New Testament does not command, address, or mention tithing to the Gentiles who are unfamiliar with Jewish practices.
- Jesus’ own ministry operated from freewill offerings. He also commanded the disciples to receive freely. (Luke 8:1-3, Matthew 10:8-10)
- The children of God under his family are not taxed. They are free to give (Matthew 17:25; Galatians 4:5)
- Tithing was not a requirement prior to the Mosaic law considering Jacob freely offered God 10%. (Genesis 28:20)
- None of the Israelites tithed while outside of the promised land. (Deuteronomy 12:5)
- Abraham’s tithe was under the Old Covenant, which was established before Moses and was also fulfilled (Genesis 3; Hebrews 8:13)
- Giving would be the only spiritual gift with a minimum requirement and not led by the Spirit.
- There are no commands to modify tithing with how we practice it today, so people have to make up correlations to get it to fit into the church.
- Israelites who did not grow food or raise animals did not tithe. (Leviticus 27:30)
- Giving is not by compulsion. (2 Corinthians 9:6-9)
- The Levitical priests were required to serve 25 years, and just like tithing, the New Testament doesn’t recall this requirement either
- Unless giving 10% is the spiritual nature of God’s holiness, then it falls under the same classification of other interim tokens in the Old Covenant that Christ fulfilled
You guys have to see this! Stop tithing…start giving!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3xAiSLG9N8&feature=related
if this is a political issue then your motives will go to nowhere.
Not at all, I love God and want to spread His Word that the tithe mandate is false doctrine. Be free to give what you have decided in your heart to give 2 Cor. 9:7
how can you say it false when jesus himself encouraged one to fulfill it in a spiritual way.
23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin.
But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
what matter of the law that state to practice first?
justice, mercy and faithfulness.
what law that state not to neglect as the former?
ofcourse the tithing laws!
what lesson can we get from jesus’s teachings?
the tithing law has the requirements to fulfill by a one person as Paul explicitely wrote in his Romans book.
Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
justice, mercy and faithfulness are qualities of spirit required in the commandment keeping.
Alright someone that acutally reads their Bible, now we have a conversation. First let’s look at Matt. 23. What did Jesus say? 23?Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin.
But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
What did they give a tenth of? “Spices—mint, dill and cummin” The tithe was agricultural only never money. And when did Jesus share this with the Pharisees, before or after His death? Before…right? What did Jesus say on the cross? “It is finished” and the veil torn in half. If we are under the law we must keep it all. Thank God Jesus paid it ALL! Does this mean we are free to hoard and sin that God’s grace will abound? God forbid! On the contrary, it is because I am free that I give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, but because I have been saved and can give whatever I cheerfully want to give. Does this make sense?
dewayne, the tithe lesson was taught by jesus years after the covenant was broken by the occupation of the Roman Empire.
why would jesus take up this tithe subject when he was aware that the kingdom of israel has long been abolished ever since?
only one thing gets into my mind!
tithing was not a part of the old covenant!
stop the tithing?
are you inciting a rebellion against God’s kingdom?
Yes a rebellion of freedom consistant with God’s kingdom! Willis I know it may be difficult to believe but tithing is not God’s best for you. Think about it. Why would He say “decide in your heart what to give” if He had already decided for you that 10% was the required amount to give? Worse than that some churches teach that you are cursed if you don’t tithe. God forbid! I pray that you would be free to give what you have decided to give. Ask God for help with this struggle, He is faithful. Stop tithing…start giving! I love you brother!
this is the problem of who is your God because even satan had masqueradwe himslf to be an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
just tell me, who said that tithing has been replaced by a give method?
was it Paul, Jesus or God?
then you must be rebelling with respect to political point of view issue.
but tithes is the best and not only that the holiest.
Numbers 18:29
You must present as the LORD’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’
so what best are you talking about when God rendered the qualites of tithes in an extreme level?
you should be the one to think!
Willis take it one step at a time. Is 10% God’s best?
you read it and you must believe it!
So what if I give 8.9% is God disappointed? Am I robbing God? Am I cursed? What does 2 Cor. 9:7 say? I want you to know this may be one of the most important discoveries you ever have. God loves you more than we know. Nothing you do will give you more favor with Him. Think about the thief on the cross. What more could he do to be saved? Yet Jesus promised him that he would be with Him in paradise. Stop tithing and start giving. I’m praying that for you right now brother.
robbing God?
have you been reading your bible?
Willis what does 2 Cor. 9:7 say?
who did the saying? was it God or the human name Paul?
Willis are you a Catholic or Mormon?
why would God say that the tithe was the holiest in num 18?
WHY?
WELL are you an FBI to bring me to that question?
matter is: the tithe did not originate from the mormon.
again! why did God render the tithe as the holiest?
No I’m not the FBI, it’s just that some of your comments seem consistant with these points of view and I wanted to make sure I had the correct starting point. Regarding the most holy offerings, I can assure you that your 10% tithe check to your church is not the most holy offering that is referred to in Num. 18, but I will say that giving what every you have decided (if 10% is what you have decided) pleases God. God loves a cheerful giver. Do you feel that Paul’s writings were equal to those writen by Moses?
matter is: the tithe did not originate from the mormon or the catholics.
again! why did God render the tithe as the holiest?
no! the word “holiest”and “best” are the extreme description unequal to anything or to your gods.
think of anything with this title parallel to what he rendred to his tithe.
Ok so the tithe (10% of your income) to the church is equal to the old testment temple offerings and most holy to God. It looks like we are going to have to disagree on this one. I am going to continue to give whatever I have decided in my heart to give and I wish you all the best. I love you brother!
Matthew 23:23 was to Jews before Jesus died on the Cross they were still under the law and not Grace. Whenever people do not realize this it shows their eyes have yet to be opened to the meaning of Grace and what all Jesus freely gave us by dying on the Cross. It includes not only Eternal life and Salvation but healing, daily provisions, freedom from oppression etc. Start glorying in the work of Christ on the Cross and not your your tithing records people! You diminish the work of Christ by boasting in your own works. Give as your act of worship as Jesus instructed to give in secret and our Father will reward us openly. Tithe boasting is not biblical but is prideful!
Watch you talkin bout Willis?
Dewayne you stole my line I was gonna say that Gee Wizz? Willis Friend are you and Adventist and What are the limitations on who can collect money tithes in your opinion. It seemed that you instructed that giving to the poor was acceptable giving to God? I am glad for your concern for the poor.
I’m sorry I had to. :)
so which one is the holiest? God or his tithe?
Hi, I just want to ask brother Willis Deuteronomy 14:22-26 clearly teaches that the tithes God wanted was food. If Moses and Aaron commanded the people to tithe with money God would have killed both of them according to Numbers 18:3. Its absolutely foolish to change or to disobey Gods instructions in the old covenant.
We can not change Gods instructions, for example King Saul when he made a burnt offering from cattle God commanded him to kill with every man, woman and children.
Imagine Moses directly telling God that tithing laws he commanded them to follow will be changed because a guy name Willis said its not part of the law beacause he is following what Abraham did and he does not need any Levites or high priest ?
Dear Willis, I dont know who brainwashed you but you sound like an inteligent person. You need to understand you can not twist and interbret the bible to try and fit your churchs doctrine to raise money to feed your pastor or for your buiding program.
The danger here is that you are teaching christians to go ahead and change Gods instructions and manipulate scriptures to fit your purpose.
Think about this, in the old covenant if you fail to keep the law God instructed Moses that you should be killed,in the new covenant,Jesus said,to forgive like what he taught in (Mathews 23:23.)
(Mathew 23:23) still proves that food was used to pay for tithes, or you want to tell Jesus it should be money. Jesus was angry when he found people trading and conducting business in the temple in ( Mathew 21:12-13). Thats Jesus additude towards money.
Willis whatever you are trying to do, if you want christians to disobey the scriptures to raise money to support you and your family or for your church buiding I am going to tell you to stop now.God is merciful and gracious but do not delibrately mislead christians or he will judge you in the very near future.
I have never been wrong before,everytime I warned or correct christians in christs love it always come true.
I pray that you do not get offended but release forgiveness towards your christian brothers and sisters who debate with you on this site.
Hi, check this one out. ( Mathew 23:23 ) The Jews paid the tithes with food, Jesus confirmed that. Money was available when Jesus was here,
When did we change the tithe from food to money ? ( Deuteronomy 14:24-26 ) teaches money was not allowed to replace food because it says in verse 25 I quote “then you shall turn it into money”and verse 26 I quote “and you may spend that money for whatever your appetite graves for”NKJ,AMP,NLT. The Jews were not allowed to eat the food for the tithe or they will be cursed.( Deuteronomy 28:15-68 ) The bible does not teach to turn money into food for the tithe or use money to replace the food tithe God commanded Moses and Aaron practised in the time of Jesus.
Where did you get this first harvest, first born, and sacrifices instructed by God that you quoted ?
Which book of the bible did you get this from and who did God used to speak to the Israelites
Are you saying that God commanded the Israelites ?
Deuteronomy 14:25-26 talks about money and what to do with the TITHE if the sanctuary is too far.
Verse 26 talks about buying whatever your heart desires.
Willis stop your lies about scripture
You have no idea, You are what we call a TRY HARD
Friends Willis Sam Joel, Dwayne and Everyone did you check out Seventh day Adventist Doctrines on money tithes. Willis I still read as much of your post as I can friend I hope you do the same with mine. Willis several times I felloshiped with Christain Jews on Saturdays this was a blessing.
Willis By your conversations I have guessed that you fellowship with Adventist, or other Sabbitarians. Could you explain. Willis we are getting to know you better becase you are sharing your heart about tithes and Christian felloship.
Willis friend Why ask those you instruct those anti tithers who you are giving your opinions, to research old post? This seems evasive to most on this forum but I think you are bolder than that. Willis You are quite prolific but also I do not understand the avoidance of certain issues like the Current Eat the tithes pricipals. How do Christians eat our tithes today? Or is it ok to give money to a Christian School and that giving be an accepatble money tithe in your opinion? Please answer directly as your time permits. Love is patient so we anti tithers can wait for a responce.
I once worked at a SDA Bible camp for kids in Washington state. The leaders let me live with them and they were so kind to me. Additionally I grew up reading big Bible books by Maxwell and placed in doctors offices and My parents taught me to read using the Blue and Red Childrens Bible stories Made by the Seventh day adventist Church. I read the Great Controversy. Willis do you love the people in this Electronic fellowship. If your felloship brings you love and Joy in Jesus why be so discreet if your fellowhsip is the best way then let us know your friends and family are they Adventist? Well if it is important you will answer as Jesus leads you freind.
Everyone Please continue to teach and debate with patience and kindness. I love you friend Willis in Jesus, Do you feel that we are Christians or lost needing salvation? I am patiently waiting for you to reveal yourself and your full testimony along with tithe debate stuff. I expect you to reply as you have time. Did you see the stuff I researched on the Seveth day adventist site about tithing what do you think? Willis do you agree with the following doctrines on tithes?
These Seventh Day Adventist doctrine statments are interesting. I have also read that Today SDA fellowships allow some money tithes to be spent at Adventist schools but this is limited. My research has been rewarding.
5. School Expenses: Ellen G. White unambiguously states that tithe is not to be “applied to school purposes,”[155] not even as a student aid fund.[156]
6. Assisting the Poor and the Sick: The Christian responsibility of caring and providing for the poor is constantly upheld by E. G. White. However, she indicates that tithe should not be used for this purpose, that it should “not be regarded as a poor fund. It is to be especially dedicated to the support of those who are bearing God’s message to the world; and it should not be diverted from this purpose.”[157] She counsels every church to “feel its responsibility to have a special interest in the feeble and the aged. . . The tithe should not be appropriated for this work.”[158]
From an official SDA website
What dose everyone think?
Spiritual parents sacrifice for their spiritual children, Christ in US!
joel, do you want me to read it on behalf of your laziness all of these commandments?
is tithe a sacrificial law or not?
if you are living in a spiritual world of God, you may get of what are those spiritual intent lie in those commandment of God and you will certainly say that tithing has no connection to money ALONE!
God is spirit and everything that comes out of his mouth must be in spirit.
this is where our discussion must be based!
my friend, for smetime i was once baptized to that religion where i get to know the importance of the laws to man. like Russel who chose to leave this belief that limited yourself to find the whole truth of God. but unlike his total about face from his erstwhile religion, the tithing laws as i discovered did not originate from the SDA doctrine but from God himself and surprisingly they could not explicate the meaning of tithes in their holdings. it limited itself to just a plain givng as your method of system being practiced commonly.
let us not to forget that God is not a cruel God as what you have ascribed him of his commandment to be as grievious to carry. this is what i have discovered in this kind of setups done by your WORLDLY CHURCHES TEACHINGS. and i am ready to battle this out anytime on this confrontation
Freewillgiver, your post is encouraging. I think we share a similar understanding about fellowship. I feel that your comment about superior fellowship is correct. How often do we overlook this opportunity believing that an organization meeting weekly is somehow superior. I look forward to following more of your posts brother.
if the tithe is destine to expire in the new covenant, why did God render tithe as the BEST and HOLIEST in Numbers 18?
making it higher than God’s righteousness to the extreme level!
just answer my specific question.
Where in the bible does it say that money is holy on to God ?
Willis thats absurd, rude, uninformed and ridiculous
Your greed and selfish motives are screaming out so loud
The tithe is for you and you are entitled to collect it THAT IS YOUR AIM
…and when did i say that the tithe is limited only to money?
you have been indulged of too much wine probably when reading my post.
The curse in ( Deuteronomy 28:15-68 ) is the same in curse in ( Galatians 3:10 )
Its so foolish to put yourself under the curse of the law or risk not being able to keep the whole law.
Please stay with Jesus in the New Covenant, which is said by His Grace we are saved not by the works of the law, because Paul teaches in Galatians 3:12 “that the law is not of faith”
We are saved because we “Belived” Jesus Christ died for our sins. We did not receive Jesus Christ as lord and saviour because we kept the law observed by Saul before Jesus threw him down near Damascus.
and as for you, why did God choose to use “Man” instead of jews or israelits in Malachi 3 to be accuss of stealing?
let’s isolate this case in this context and start to debate until we arrive to the new covenant of God.
In the time of Malachi, Gentiles were in the Sanctuary paying tithes and giving offerings thats funny and irresponsible. How can you be this ignorant.
You might even belive that Egyptians and Philistines were involved in Malachi too.
So with this in mind Moses instructed the Egyptians that he came to Egypt to deliver them from the Isrealites.
You are so confused you might even think you are Moses or Elijah. Have a shot of reality and come down to earth.
( Mathew 23:23 ) says Food was used for tithes in the time of Jesus. Do you agree with that? Yes or NO.
In our time Money is used for tithe, who changed it ?
Jesus obeyed his fathers commandments and instructions perfectly. So he knew the Jews were keeping the law given by Moses by paying their tithes with food and commented on the way they kept it.
He did not rebuke the Jews for paying tithes with food,that means the Jews were following the tithing law perfectly.
Pharisee were present to make sure the law of tithing was observed properly the same thing Saul did before he was saved and became Apostle Paul. IT WAS FOOD COMMANDED BY MOSES AND AARON ( Deuteronomy 14:22-23 ) FOOD ONLY unless its too far then SELL THE TITHE and eat it before the Lord( Deuteronomy 14:25-26 )
which particular verse that the gentiles living in israel paid their tthes?
one at a time only because you made your admission that the commandment was for the gentiles too opposite to what has your group believed that it was intended only for the israelites.
looks like the truth is leaking from your mouth!
but there’s another more to come just stay tune..
Are you saying that the Gentiles were commanded by God to tithe and keep the commandments in the old covenant brfore Jesus ?
THe law of Moses was written,God instructed Moses to record every instructions He gave him and to make sure the chidren of Israel follows it carefully. Deuteronomy 28:1 unless you forgot God wrote the ten commandments
Deuteronomy 28:1 refers to the nation of Israel only ( Jews) not you because Willis did not have a covenant with God before Jesus. ( Deuteronomy 29:1 ) confirms that it was the nation of Israel. The jews are still called Gods people today. They are mentioned all over the old and new testament in the bible.
Stop trying to add and take away what the bible says Willis its dangerous.
Someone or something really mess you up. You are like a brain dead victim of deception.
THe Gentiles did not have a covenant with God before Jesus.
Willis where do you come up with this junk?
The Jews are still Gods people, why are you so proud ? You can not be both,Either you are a gentile or you are a Jew.
Do you understand that ? YES or NO ? Philistines had no covenant with God so God did not expect them to pay tithes or any offerings in Malachis time or Aaron and Moses time. This is elementry I feel stupid to even point this out to you.
You are so mixed up with your false doctrine you do not even make sense anymore.
Jesus is the king of the Jews, YES or NO? It was not written on his cross that he was king of England or king of Tonga or any other country.
Did you receive the Holy Spirit from keeping the law or from beliving in Christ Jesus ?
You can not separate tithing from the law because Jesus said it in ( Mathew 23:23 )
sam, just follow my trail of truth and you will not get lost!
shalom.
You mean, For me to follow Osama bin laden and ask him to explain the bible ?How to be brainwashed or how to con christians to give you money to pay for your bills and call it tithing ? You have no idea about truth the only truth you want is how to steal from christians to feed your family and then tell them that God wants them to keep the law of tithing. I CAN EASILY SPOT A FRAUD LIKE YOU ANYTIME.
Thank you Willis Joel and Sam for participation. Wow I love this Blog Jesus fellowship thanks Jared Joel Sam and Willis. This blog is about delighting ourselves in the lord Jesus then we will have the desires in Jesus of our hearts. Willis please post your fellowships doctrinal statements on tithes if they have one and you agree with them then we could all be quickly enlightened.
Is this a challenge for you or do you mainly fellowship alone or with a small group? What is the exact shape of correct giving in your beliefs. Are all Christian priest worthy to collect the money of God and give it to ministries in their homes and Schools. What are money tithing restraints?
Jesus deserves our time talent and treasure to make disciples in numerous ways. Giving and hearing testimonies help to build me up and everyone else so friends share pieces of your hearts along with debating it is rewarding. Revelations explains They will overcome the beast with their words and testimony.
Willis you are prolific thank you for calling me friend. I know it was purposeful because as others stated you are sharp. I laugh at your sharp rebukes because I guess you mean not to harm. Here is a tithe twist on Christian TV music and Entertainment Give yourself and your family 10% Secular entertainment and 90% purposeful religious or educational entertainment. I DVR Christian Cartoons for my kids so they can have Jesus lessons on Saturday mornings.
“What you talkin bout Willis?” What is your mission here on this blog? I am an African American conservative Californian who has shook governor Arnold Swartzenegers hand but then I voted for Gary Coleman in a California Governors’ election. Willis you are revealing more of your testimony and I’m pleased with less anonymous fellowship. What is your mission friend Willis please tell us more about those you love.
I think it is no accident that Jesus has brought us all to this group. What do you think of most of us on this Electronic fellowship? Are we Christians in your Book? Are you enjoying our fellowship friend I hope you are? You stated something about leaving the SDA church like Dr Russell was he SDA at one time and am I clear that you were SDA at one time.
What kind of fellowship do you attend if our current fellowships are inferior we need info on a superior fellowship? Well you will state this if it is important. What fellowship practices tithes closest to your beliefs and I am glad that you
I have been Pentecostal, Calvary Chapel, Baptist, Church of God in Christ, and Presbyterian. I fellowship with all Trinitarian believers but now my local fellowship is in a Christian School with no stated Pastor.
Joel and Sam I agree with you of course about mandated food tithes of Moses. Of course these are the only tithes clearly recorded as mandated groups of believers in the Bible. I have not found any other tithes mandated for the Jews which were not food tithes in the Old Testament.
Everyone, I am learning from your writings so as Jesus permits, Please always fellowship, rebuke when necessary, explain, post short, post long, suffer, be patient, listen, read , learn, give love and share the freedom and restraint in the love of Jesus friends.
Here it is folks ! Finally we see the proof of deception from Willis
He said I quote ” THE SUDDEN APPEARENCE OF PAUL IN THE CHRISTIAN’S SCENE ALLEGEDLLY TO HAVE CLAIMED THAT HE HAS SEEN THE CHRIST BUT REFUTED BY SOME SCEPTICS THROUGH THE IRRECONCILABLE EVENTS IN THE BIBLE ” end of quote
What can I say, Willis picks and choose which part of the new and old testament he agrees with and which chapter and verses to call lies.
I knew that either you are mentally disturb or so deceived that you do not even kow if you are Moses or Apostle Paul.
Willis go seek medical help while you still remember the road to the hospital.
Willis,
I am the author and owner of this blog. I am going to ask once and i am serious. It is time for you to leave. Do not even respond to this comment. Say nothing, and leave.
– jared
Yes I agree with Sam WIllis, you need to go see a psyciatrist or a psycologist to help you now. I am concerned that you are a danger to yourself and others. Please go now.
This is just a place where christians voice their opinions.
Please ignore everything we said to you on this site but go and see a doctor today or asap
Willis, I am sorry for what I said to you, please go seek some proffesional help. A good psyciatrist can help you with some medication. I hope you get well soon
Hi, I think we are too serious about this debate, Willis the opinons posted on this site are just opinons. I think you are taking this site too seriously. Maybe you should relax and and go see a therapist to discuss your opinoins or maybe a psyciatrist to listen to you and help you relax a bit more. Try and relax and not take opinons too seriously from other people. Go on a vacation it might help you rest and relax.
Colossians 2: 14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ( the tithe was an ordinance) cts
Acts 13:39..and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Galatians 3:11″So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”
Hebrew 8:6
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises”.
Hebrew8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Only a moron cannot understand the above New Testament Scripture is opposing the keeping to the law for justification and favor from God! IT IS FINISHED. Ask for your favor in the name of Jesus for free!
Colossians 2:14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross”.
Yes the tithe was an ordinance. Again that is why Jesus said it is finished paid infull.
He fulfilled the law and it is HIS payment that God required for our Favor/Grace.
Stop boasting in your own payments, braggarts! After the Cross it is His payment that really counts!
WILLIS IS SILENT on the above scriptures, mmmm…….
that’s because i asked him not to come back
Roman 8:32 God did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all so he will surely with him (Jesus) freely give us all things.
Tithe mandaters do you understand that God will freely give us all things for free in the name of Jesus?
Mathew 23:23 was before the Cross. Jews still under the law all had to keep 613 which controlled every aspect of their daily living.
Acts 13:39
..and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:11
“So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Thanx truth friend
Does anyone else notice that Willis has no rebuttal to the Scriptures Truthbetold gave to blow away his doctrine that law keeping for Justification and right standing with God is still in force.
Tithe propagandist please look up the word Grace and understand the word UnMerited Favor!
Unmerited is a gift you cannot earn and did not deserve!
In their desperation to falsely justify tithing as still an active law for the Christian Church some Pastors are saying we are under the Abrahamic Covenant, Please! God put Abraham to sleep in the ceremony when he cut that Covenant with him. It was God alone passing between the two halves of the animals. God fulfilled that Covenant unconditionally.
It is in Genesis 15:12. Abraham voluntarily gave a tenth one time only! Pastors tell you to faithfully tithe continuously. One time is not (faithful continuous) tithing!
I give but I will be darn if I fall for falsified information not according to my New Covenant Promises. Jesus is the New Covenant PERIOD!
Hebrew 8:6
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises”.
Hebrew8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
PS WHO DARE TO SLANDER THE APOSTLE PAUL. GOD APPOINTED HIM IN PERSON & COMMISSIONED HIM TO PREACH TO THE GENTILES!
Abrahamic Covenant starts in Genesis 12:15 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him.
Genesis 15:12 was a typo
If people want to tithe and want to pay God for a blessing that is their business.
As for me, I think no one can top the payment Jesus already made when he said paid in full, it is finished.
I sure think if anyone loves Jesus they will give a tenth & more as the Holy Spirit leads but not to waste money on charlatans-that would be sinful!
Some people (whom I will not name) are posting without reading the previous comments.
Maybe some things bare repeating but can we at least read the previous comments or you may sound (sorry to be harsh but) redundant.
I really enjoyed reading all your points. I often wonder how churches can be so bold while asking for the tithes, or nore like demanding and using leverage. I am a develoted church goer and every week I feel as though the sermon in that regard is off. There is a feeling I get its hard to explain.
The thing about Tithing is if it’s either part of the Law, or pre-Law.
If it’s part of the Law, then it’s been fulfilled and does not apply to us (Romans 3:20, Hebrews 7:18-19). Anyone trying to obey some of the Law are bound to the Law and have to keep all of it (James 2:10-11). And anyone trying to keep the Law have forsaken Christ (Galatians 5:4).
So if the Law has been done away with, the only thing left in support of the Tithe is Genesis 14 & 28, which say they gave a tenth before the Law was established.
But Abram did not give of his own possessions. He gave from the spoils of war, paid his friends and covered his expenses from the spoil, and gave the rest back to Sodom. Abram was already very wealthy (Genesis 13:2), and was already blessed by God (Genesis 14:19).
So if Abraham did not give an actual Tithe, what of Jacob? Jacob’s vow is conditional. Jacob needed proof before he was willing to accept that the LORD was his God! He asked God to be with him, watch over him, take care of all his needs, and let him return safely, and THEN he would Tithe.
Is that what Churches teach? Don’t they say we must Tithe first, and only after we do so for an unspecified amount of time, God will start taking care of us? That’s the exact opposite of what Jacob did! To top it off, there is no record that Jacob kept his vow, even though God met every condition that Jacob set for him.
Another problem with Tithing is that pro-Tithers claim that we can buy God’s blessing. That’s NOT what God says.
Matthew 5:45
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matthew 6:1-2
“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.”
Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
God’s Kingdom is not here on earth, and our reward is not here on earth. And many seem to forget that the Apostle Paul, who they look to when trying to support their Tithing Doctrine, suffered greatly throughout his life (2 Cor 11:24-28). Where is Paul’s reward? I think the answer is that his reward is not here on earth – he served the God of Heaven and like us, his reward is in Heaven!
Wes Thank you
Your take on Jacob making his tithe conditional is one that I often forget. Pre-law and under the Law is also a great distinction to remember when considering tithing.
I can’t believe you guys.
Why are we arguing about whether or not tithing is required, when the whole point is to show our reliance on God and not on our own accomplishments?
If you tithe because you feel an obligation, then you’ve already missed the point.
We love God, and to show our love and devotion to Him we freely give of our own possessions and earnings (which are His to begin with), not because God needs it (what can we give to God that he cannot do without?) but because WE need to live out what we preach.
Reading these posts, I feel that the arguments against tithing are just hiding a selfish desire to keep more of what we earned and gathered. Remember the story of Cain? He gave out of obligation, and he didn’t even give the best parts.
Give me a reason to not tithe, and I’ll show you a selfish heart.
Hi Andrew, Most of the christians here are just exposing the truth that is in the bible, you decide whether to accept it or reject the opinions that are posted here. I for one belive in serving the Lord with our finances but steer away from the Mosaic Law because you can still put yourself under its curse if you do not keep the other 613 Laws as Paul warnned the church in Galatian 3:10.
Please give what you can afford 12%,15%, or more but leave the tithing laws alone it was given under the Law of Moses and there is a CURSE ATTACHED TO IT IF YOU FAIL TO KEEP IT ALL. Let us serve God with our finances but do not put yourselves under the law again.
Have a Peaceful day
It is emphasized by the Lord Himself in Mat 23:23 that much of the talk in the church should address weighty matters like Justice, Mercy and faithfulness in His word and tithing should not be neglected nonetheless. That’s why it clearly states ‘ You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.’ God Bless you all.
Shawn,
Jesus also clearly states a few verses earlier to obey what the Pharisees, but you aren’t going around preaching that, are you?
One important thing to note, which many pro-Tithers ignore.
The whole verse says:
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.”
Sadly, far too many people focus on Jesus telling them they should Tithe, while ignoring the part where Jesus said Tithing was part of the law.
Wes, tithing was part of the Law. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees knew that fact very well. Jesus criticized them because they neglected the more important matters of the LAW – justice, mercy and faithfulness. But Jesus also affirmed tithing which should be practiced not neglected.
Jesus spoke to Pharisees, temple was there, old covenant Pharisees required to tithe. WE aren’t Pharisees + hey, where’s the temple to tithe at?… Enjoy!
The OT tithe never went to the Temple anyway. Four of seven years (the seventh being Sabbath), the people ATE their tithe, either at the Tabernacle or the Temple. The third and sixth years, the tithe was laid up in the storehouses of the cities nearest the fields from which it came. It was to be enough, along with leaving enough of the poor to glean at harvest time EVERY year, to cover all the needs of the Levite, the poor, the widow, the fatherless and the stranger within their gates throughout each 7-year period. Then there’s Jubilee…
The Temple lived on the Temple Tax, 1/2 shekel for every man smog the Israelites. The Priests and Levites ate most of what was offered on the Brazen Altar. For instance, the Firstfruits were to be a sheaf of the newest crop, waved before the Lord. Then a handful was burned on the Altar. The rest went to the Levite’s family who offered it.
A few more things in that verse pro-Tithers ignore.
1) Jesus was speaking to “teachers of the law and Pharisees”. Not to us.
2) Jesus spoke of giving food as the Tithe. Not money.
3) Jesus told these Jews that even though they were Tithing, that they were neglecting more important things.
that was to someone who was under the OT