As we continue our ‘Tithing on Trial’ series, we will evaluate the most common tithing arguments used to defend its practice. So let’s evaluate another argument used to promote tithing.
Argument:
Malachi 3:6 States That God Never Changes, so we must continue to obey tithing.
Malachi 3:6-8 “For I am the Lord, I do not change; . . . Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.”
Anyone who says that tithing never changed because God never changes couldn’t explain these next NINETEEN ways that tithing had been changed. These 19 changes are not only examples of how things have changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament, but many of these examples show how tithing was altered and even exempted at times within the Old Testament alone.
Change #1
From This: Abraham tithed on all the spoils of war (Hebrews 7:4).
→ To This: Later Israel could only tithe from their crops or animals (Leviticus 27).
Change #2
From This: Abraham tithed items made outside the land of Israel
→ To This: Israel could only tithe from items grown from within the land of Israel. (Deuteronomy 12:5)
Change #3
From This: Abraham gave 1/10 of the spoils of war.
→ To This: Israel was commanded to give 1/500 of their spoils of war. (Numbers 31:9, 27-29)
Change #4
From This: FIRST, Abraham gave the tithe out of obligation (Genesis 14:20)
→ To This: AND then Jacob offers it voluntarily (Genesis 28:22)
→ → Then To This: AND then the nation of Israel is required to give it out of obligation (Leviticus 27)
→ → → And Finally To This: Now, we are under grace so we are told that it’s now voluntarily obligated? Huh?! (Galatians 4)
Change #5
From This: Israel’s tithe only went towards taking care of the poor, Levites, and national feasts (Nehemiah 10:38, Deuteronomy 14:22).
→ To This: Today, we’ve been told that the tithe can be used for anything including building funds.
Change #6
From This: Non-farmers and non-herdsmen (ie: Bankers, Lawyers, Doctors, and Carpenters) were not allowed to tithe their income. (Leviticus 27)
→ To This: Today, we’ve been told that every occupation is required to tithe their income.
Change #7
From This: It was directly commanded by God to not include the best nor the first in the tithe. (Leviticus 27:32)
→ To This: Today, we are told to include the best and first fruits of our tithe, disregarding not only the Old Testament command in Leviticus 27:32 but also the New Testament command in 2 Timothy 2:6.
Change #8
From This: The poor didn’t give tithes in the bible, they received them. (Nehemiah 10:38)
→ To This: Today, not only do the poor probably see very little of the tithe, if any, but they are told they are required to tithe.
Change #9
From This: Most of the tithe was stored in storehouses to be distributed and consumed mostly outside the temple. (Nehemiah 10:37-38)
→ To This: Today, there is no storage house for the tithe, and mostly consumed within the Church instead of distributed.
Change #10
From This: Only 1% was stored in the Temple Storehouse, the other 9% were stored in Levitical cities
→ To This: Today, we are told to bring the whole 10% to the Church building. (Deuteronomy 14:28)
Change #11
From This: Some of the agricultural tithes were only given 5.5 out of every 7 years – The 7th year was sabbatical, so there was no gleaning or planting. The first half of the next year was planting. (Leviticus 25)
→ To This: Today, we changed it to give tithe year after year without a single sabbatical or rest.
Change #12
From This: Abraham & Israel gave a tithe while under the Old Covenant
→ To This: We are told it is still required under a completely new covenant.
Change #13
From This: Many types of offerings in the Old Testament were also required
→ To This: We’ve been told these offerings are freewill now.
Change #14
From This: We are no longer under the curse (Galatians 3:13)
→ To This: But are reminded that we are still under the curse of the tithe (Malachi 3:9)
Change #15
From This: The tithe was given to the Levites because they couldn’t have an inheritance of land (Numbers 18:24)
→ To This: No one is stopping ministers from owning land today.
Change #16
From This: Jesus’ own ministry was supported without tithes and also sent the disciples out without tithes. (Luke 8:1-3, Matthew 10:8-10)
→ To This: Ministries today do not follow Jesus’ example.
Change #17
From This: The tabernacle was built and maintained through only freewill offerings (Exodus 35).
→ To This: Today, we support the church through tithing while other “outside” ministries receive freewill offerings.
Change #18
From This: From 1 A.D. through 566 A.D. the Church did not recognize tithing.
→ To This: In A.D. 567 The Church ordered the payment of tithes.
Change #19
From This: God did not accept money for tithing (Leviticus 27).
→ To This: The church accepts checks, cash, credit card, and even Bitcoin.
Now that the evidence has been given in this court of law, it is your turn to decide
YOU BE THE JUDGE
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If God never changes His demands, commands, etc., then as the tithe of the Bible was never cash, then it cannot be cash today.
More Concerning The Tithe.
God does not change concerning the Tithe discussion
This is a little long so please forgive me if you find this a little labor intensive.
1. Mankind’s actions (over time) have changed – YES! God has not! What has change is our action in light of a never changing God. This is part of what it means to be a God chaser. The more I learn the more I want to learn and CHANGE towards what God what me to be. However God never changes. Satan always is changing!!!
2. We must be very careful when using mankind’s actions to define God’s omniscience or divine character. Abraham actions concerning this topic were an act of love and the initial act towards what would later become knowen as the tithe. This Abraham act being the beginning of this conversation for most. Abrahan was “God’s Friend!”
3. Through a growing (deeper understanding) of the relationship between God and man (from brokenness onto restoration) those obedient to God’s Will concerning the loving act of tithing become more and more sincere throughout Biblical History. Even this is not a uniform standard as some total got it wrong or used tithing as a means to riches. The OT is a story of an awakening into a deeper relationship with God for those that truely seek Him.
4. This is also true about several topics like; (OT = Praying several times a day / NT = Continues Prayer without ceasing) (OT = Sacrifices in character / NT = Living Sacrifice) ( OT = Tithe 10% / NT = Giving of one complete self or 100% to God)
5. When talking about tithing in the OT or NT we must consider who we are talking about and not lump everyone into the same basket.
NT = Today I liken this topic to the pulpit and pew. The Pulpit being all the (1) Offices (Levites) within the Hebrew Nation in some instances and the (2) entire Hebrew Nation in others – and the pew being all others whether saved or unsaved outside of (1) or (2).
OT = (1) The Levite tribe which was 1/12 of the Hebrew nation in some occasions. (2) The entire Hebrew Nations without regard.
6. Almost in every topic of discussion there is a growing awareness of the Hebrews relationship with God as we move through the OT and on into and through the NT. Mankind’s actions change in many respects, some missing the mark and some hitting the mark OF THE DAY – (as mankind new to act in his relationship with God)
7. Even Jesus further defined God’s Law so we would have a deeper understanding therefore Jesus Himself upgrade (if you will) the known Godly Law of Moses & the prophets. Just one example: Matt 5:27-28 &
8. So these comments are very true (posted by Steward 02/16/13) but not an authority as to why or why not someone should tithe today in their entirety. If you do not want to tithe and are looking for a Biblical reason then there are quite a few scriptures taken out of the context of the whole history of tithing that we satisfy your need. It is not until we understand the history of Tithing and the growing understanding that the Hebrew Nation went through before we understand the ultimate meaning of the Tithe. The Hebrew nation did not fully understand the Tithe or much of the Law as God would want us to know it today. As a matter of fact the church of that day miss-used much of the Law for their own profit motives. And I am sorry to say that not much has changed today. This does not remove anyone from God’s will however.
9. If anyone (or a few verses of) scripture could justify anyone’s pre-determined desires on any one topic then they could just pick one that fits those personal purposes. Many topics are not governed by a selection of scriptures but rather a history of a spiritual awakening (topic specific) given over time. They are a history of mankind’s awakening through the OT and on into the NT. As an example; Abraham tithe is NOT THE STANDARD by which we tithe today but rather the beginning (initial act) of a loving act that over time evolved into the 10% tithe.
10. The word tithe in and of itself means = 1/10.
11. The question that has to be asked is; why do we tithe today? Where has the evolutional Biblical History taken us in an awareness of our relationship with God?
12. Tithing throughout Biblical History has evolved (God has not) in an effort to (with all other spiritual topics) express a Godly principle of love.
13. The only people who were commanded to give a tithe (tenth) unto God were the
children of Israel (God’s chosen people [treasured people (Deuteronomy 7:6)] of the day and not all people). At this time there was no salvation through grace where you chose God. No – God chose them and called them His Chosen People.
14. This is very different in the NT after Pentecost. The law which God gave to Israel through Moses required Israel to give 1/10 of their goods to God as a LAW. These verses teach the tithing regulations God expected the nation of Israel to obey: Lev. 27:30; Num. 18:21, Deut. 12:6; 14:28 26:12; 2Ch 31:5; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12; Mal 3:10. This represents the OT Church LAWFUL CHURCH.
15. The NT Church is much more.
16. People gave in differing ways throughout history depending on their status and time in history. Farmers gave products from the farm and in the OT many people did not deal in money but worked through a barter system. Later they would exchange their farm product for money at the temple doors. Other (in the cities) worked and exchanged money so their system was a little different. These styles are represented in the Bible and cannot be used as an overall standard. They are peculiar and appropriate to those specific occasions. Many Biblical references refer to specific times & peoples in history. The process is not as important and the end meaning.
17. Jesus says in John 4:24, “God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” Israel was to give a lawful tithe, we are taught to “lay by in store as we have been prospered (1 Cor. 16:2), and as we “purposeth in our heart” (2 Cor. 9:7),
which will “prove the sincerity of our love” (2 Cor. 8:8). Giving which is
void of first giving one’s heart (1 Corinthians 13) to the Lord does not please God (Mk.
12:41-44; 2 Cor. 8:5; 9:6-7). These statements do not void the 10% tithe, but rather reinforces true believers to worship the tithe in spirit and truth. In other words, if you do not want to give the proper tithe, than do not. (see 1 Corinthians 13) Be truthful before God. Be hot or Cold – not lukewarm! (Rev 3:16) 20% without the right motives = 0% before God.
18. If you want to give nothing at all as a tithe to God then you can find isolated Biblical information that will justify that act. The problem is you have to deny the balance of scripture you are ignoring.
19. However, when you see all scripture and the metamorphosis the Hebrew nation was going through then and only then can one clearly see the destination in Malachi and on into the NT. The same observation can be made forward from Malachi as Malachi is not the last word either. If you simply take a selection of scriptures and pool them together without understand the changing (growing process and individual circumstances) it can become quite confusing. There are many unlearned people that easily fall for those tatics. History has proven that quite well. That is why we have so many different denominations.
20. Consider (Biblical Heterogeneous) & (Biblical Homogeneous) when talking about different times in history (The study of Biblical History) as well as classes of people (farm people or city people for just 2 examples) or (200 BC as opposed to 5 BC as opposed to 350 AD). There are a great number of distortitions when you take one thing here and without regard apply it over there – ALL THE TIME.
21. 1 Corinthians 13:11-13 speak to this concerning all issues that can be distorted by relying one just a few scriptures that represent the growing process from childhood into adulthood.
22. Taking Malachi alone – and then looking backwards. Many were out of order if Malachi is the only uniform standard. However many people were in order for their particular day and time concern tithing and what they knew. If we use the Malachi standard and move backward to Cain and Abel we would find them out of order. Yap, you are right… They did what they knew to do – one got it right and one wrong.
23. We must be very careful when pilling information up to see what falls out without truly understanding each item onto its own time and place and application. Many times a truth today will become a half understood truth when tomorrow you get the fuller story and appliaction. However you were not ready for it yesterday. That is in relationship to a never changing God that is calling out His lost people from darkness into light. It did not happen over night be took generations.
24. It is sometime amazing to me that we try and use the Bible (verse and scripture) as a legal document and not a living thing that describes a evelotion of relationship between God and mankind. I have been married for over 26 years and my relationship with my wife and children cannot be described in just one particular date on the calendar. It is all important. Why or why do we try and do the same thing with just one or a select few verses of scripture.
25. Tithe = 10% of your time/talents/and treasure. If you are not lovingly getting the first 10% right, the equally you are getting the other 90% just as wrong. My home is a church just as I have a community Church. I guess you could say that when I get the 10% at the community Church right then I am getting the 90% at the home church right. It is all God’s!
Final comments: Before closing: MY THOUGHTS. The bible tells us that if you fail in one particular law then you fail them all. (James 2:10) The laws purpose is simply to show when we fall short. It is my opinion that if you are doing anything Godly only half hearted then you are probably doing everything Godly that way. If you only 1/2 your brother then that same 1/2 probably applies to your love life in all regards. If you only 1/2 forgive that it is probably 1/2 everywhere that you do the same… and so one.
Closing: It is great that this information is in public discussion. God bless us all!!! This will be my last contribution to this subject.
I will tithe. I will not use flowery, intellectual arguments as to why or why not. I feel in my spirit it is the right thing to do. That’ s all.
I dont care if people are telling me theres a cliff ahead. Im just gonna close my eyes and keep on trucking. . . No wonder christianity is so messed up.
Mark,
I had a difficult time understanding what you were trying to say and where you trying to go with what you were saying. Your thoughts just seemed random. Maybe i’m a little slow.
– jared
God also said we were to stone the adulterer too, are we doing that now? You are no better than the radical Muslims to put people through this mess. God has never opened the windows of heaven and poured anyone out a blessing that they wouldn’t have room to receive. The scriptures are right there in your face in the above article. The tithe was for ancient Israel, we don’t give a tithe because we are born of a priesthood ourselves and are able to make a living for ourselves. Jesus was the last High priest… The bible tells us to give from our hearts. No one is being blessed but the Pastors in the so called established churches, they have kicked God out of the schools, the workplace, and even out of His own house. What about the ninety two year old lady down in Georgia that went to the same church for over 50 years and was a faithful tither, her pastor sent her a letter kicking her out of the church for lack of participation, and not paying her tithe, only to find out the 92 year old was home bedridden sick and no one went to check on her from the church. Now I’m just saying don’t sound like God poured her a blessing according to the word, but I say it was a blessing for over 50 years for them, they robbed that poor old lady, God just put a stop to it. I wonder why the windows of heaven wasn’t open for her in all those years, the scripture, don’t say anything about your faith, it says prove me now and you will see.
Case Closed!!!
Mark, you have tabulated things well but have raised so many contradictions. You have failed to follow the sequency of points outlined above. I know that when men and women are overtaken by religion, it is difficult to move then from darness into light because they have never tasted the beauty and benefits of light. Those who are used to carrying heavy things on their heads, they find it difficult to put it down even when they are offered a lift. In the same way, people have become conditioned to tithing that they feel it ungodly to let go of it. What the brethren are saying is that as you let go the tithe, there is something else you need to do. If the original tithe was not money and the command to give the tithe was directed at the nation of Israel, why should we embrace the change from fruits of the Promised Land to the money from every profession on earth? If, indeed, the command to tithe was for the eleven tribes of Israel, which tribe do the gentile tithers represent?
There are so many other questions that need answering scripturally and logically. The priesthood changed from those who receved the tithe to those who gave, from those who served at the alter to those who never did. The Bible tells us that Moses never expected that things would turn out that way, and that the law would change in that fashion (Heb.7:11-18). It is important that we underline Verses 12,13,14,18-19. The law changed with the change of the Priesthood. The priesthood of men died with them, but that of Christ is forever. The Old testament low was the low of death, but the law of grace is the law of love and life. It is my prayer that people will see the superiority of the Lord over Moses. The law was annulled(abolished) whether we like it or not (vv18-19; 8:13; 9:13-16; Rom.10:4 and). It is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ that has necessitated the superority of the new covenant. That simply means that if we are dragging the old covenant items, the tithe, into the new covenant, the we do not understand what the new covenant entails. The early Christains who understood it better, left the tithe out because the Holy Spirit directed them so. The Church of Christ operated on Spirit controlled love; not the outdated and conscienceless tithe, which is the case even today among many of those who practise it.
The Lord wanted a complete and clear break from the hypocritical tithe to embrace real and true love one for the other, not love for the church. many of us love the church so much that we cannot even see the brother or any one in need. The Lord in all His teachings, about giving, He never mentioned the church> He mentioned the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the naked, the sick, the lame etc….We think of the church because in our religious thoughts we have linked the survival of ” our churches” to the tithe, while the true Church of Christ is over flowing with the hungry, homeless, the naked, the orphans and widows completely stranded when the so called churches are overflowing with wealth.
If the Lord loved me enough to leave heaven’s glory to give Himself for me, is He so poor that He should need my tithe? He became poor that I may become rich (lazarus and the rich fool). The early Christians, without the tithe lived on Christ’s love supported by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:44-47), and the scriptures say that the end of the commandment (law) is charity (1Tim. 1:5). Charity or love is one law that the Lord introduced in His Church and it worked very well until the Ananias and Saphira syndrome finally infected the church and selfishness crept in that the tithe raised its shadowy face again.
Yes, let people tithe with the full knowledge that they have abondoned the needy in preference for the “church” the institution , rather than the Church, the body of Christ. (From:THE TITHING dILEMMA AND THE TRIUMPHS OF LOVE, 2011,20013).
Concerning Titling and the most recent post by Brother Robert.
Thank you for that input! I agree with much of what you are saying but would like to point out a few additional points. I will do this point by point starting with your comments and adding at the end
A few opening observations. Many people use the word Tithe in the NT as a TOOL WORD. The word tithe is not in the NT other than as a reference to hypocrites in Matt 23:23 & Luke 11:43. This is also before Pentecost which is the actual change from Law to grace. This discussion revolves around this change from Law to Grace.
1. If the original tithe was not money and the command to give the tithe was directed at the nation of Israel, why should we embrace the change from fruits of the Promised Land to the money from every profession on earth?
Response: All believers are a part of the Hebrew Nation today. There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal 3:28 & Col 3:11). I have heard this argument before to non-Israel from others. As a mater it is quite the opposite. We are all one in and through Jesus Christ. In the OT Israel was a shadow of what we are or were to become today. As a matter of fact the disciples had a very big problem with this message given by (Peter 2:9) (Side note to talk about later: James 2:8-26)
2. If, indeed, the command to tithe was for the eleven tribes of Israel, which tribe does the gentile tithers represent?
Response: My answer is that we are all (born-again Christians) of the Levite Tribe. We are all of the priesthood with a little different understanding. It is true that the 1/12 Levite Tribe accepted Tithes from the other 11/12 Tribes. I will discuss this later in this discussion.
3. There are so many other questions that need answering scripturally and logically.
Response: This is very true as Tithing is interconnect with so many subjects. I appreciate this comment. We could easily talk about just one minor aspect and fill this board for weeks. Even this discussion is broad in nature and therefore just a surface discussion, Nonetheless very important.
4. The priesthood changed…
Response: The priesthood did change but God did not.
Concerning Tithing alone; the Tithe is just not only an act to God. Our part is just half of what is the total act of tithing. God who does not change has a part as well. God’s part has never changed.
The priesthood represented the link between Man and God. We often throw away the baby with the bath water (so to speak) when talking about a change of priesthood and law to grace. These only represent an intermediary structure and not God Himself. (1 Peter 2:9 & John 1:16-17)
(OT=lawful – hypocritical) (NT=Loving – faithful) in regards to tithing.
5. The Bible tells us that Moses never expected that things would turn out that way, and that the law would change in that fashion (Heb.7:11-18).
Response: Yes it does. Moses expectations are nothing more than that. You cannot prove a negative and from Moses point of view Moses know that there would be a change, yes; Moses just did not know exactly what that would be. We must be very careful not to fill the voids of Moses awareness with something here.
However speaking about the Priesthood and Melchisedec there is a change. Not a removal altogether. The priesthood is still here today and while we know that Jesus is the Melchisedec of the epistles the same Spirit is represented in the Holy Spirit that is in every born-again Christian.
6. The law changed with the change of the Priesthood. The priesthood of men died with them, but that of Christ is forever. The Old Testament low was the low of death, but the law of grace is the law of love and life.
Response: Yes the law did change as the intermediary between man and God and the law’s replacement was grace. However two of the three items in this conversation has not changed within the Godly plan of salvation and Holiness. That is God and man.
The first was God – Law – Man
The second was God – Grace – Man.
We often change God and/or man along the way…
Why do you think that is?
7. superiority of the Lord over Moses. The law was annulled (abolished) whether we like it or not (vv18-19; 8:13; 9:13-16; Rom.10:4 and).
Response: This is a mater of perspective and how we are discussing this subject…
The Law was not annulled (abolished) by grace through faith. Hummmm!!!
It is annulled and abolished if you do (Romans 10:9-10 & Eph 2:1-22) and in specific (2:5 & 8). Grace has no authority over you until you accept that authority. If you are (uncovered or absent of the grace through Jesus Christ) by your choice then and by default are exposed to the law of sin and death without grace for forgiveness.
This is where some of the confession comes in. When we are convicted in our hearts about a short coming it is because we find ourselves exposed to the law and out of order. The question is can born-again Christians sin? If the answer is yes then that means the Law of Sin and death is present.
What then does 1 John 3:9 mean? That is referring to habitual sin or unrepentant sin which would be out of character for a true born-again Christian. It is not referring to the inability to sin. It is however referring to the acknowledgement of sin and then being forgiven the instant you are aware of the presence of sin and repent of those sins.
8. It is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ that has necessitated the superiority of the new covenant. That simply means that if we are dragging the old covenant items, the tithe, into the new covenant, the we do not understand what the new covenant entails.
Response: The key word here is covenant. Covenant is the in-between connection only. I have covered this in item # 6.
(_______=actions)
A LITTLE MORE: The covenant has changed from the LAW OF _____ to the GRACE-FULL ACTS OF_________.
The ____________ has not changed with one exception (sort of). That would be the Blood Sacrifices that Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection was the last. If there still a requirement for Blood Sacrifices today. I means since I am implying that the Law is still here the Blood Sacrifices must be as well. If God does not change then neither should our requirement for Blood Sacrifices for those sins? This only makes sense. The answer is YES Blood Sacrifices are still required today. The correct answer to this requirement is Jesus Christ death and resurrection (Blood Sacrifice) that is for all time and is still being paid today in the place of new sins that would require a new Blood Scarface. Jesus death was for all mankind everywhere and in every time. The only time Jesus Christ’s Blood Scarface has an effect is when we accept it as such. Without accepting Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9-10) that we are then left with the Law of Blood Sacrifices.
9. The Lord wanted a complete and clear break from the hypocritical tithe to embrace real and true love one for the other, not love for the church.
Response: Your observation is mine as well. The key word here is “hypocritical” – and not tithe!
This sort of brings us to two separate questions:
1. Was there a lawful tithe that was not hypocritical? Hummmm!!!
2. What would that tithe look like sense all we have (in this conversation) as an example is a hypocritical tithe?
I’ll speak to that shortly.
10. The Lord in all His teachings, about giving, He never mentioned the church> He mentioned the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the naked, the sick, the lame etc….
We think of the church because in our religious thoughts we have linked the survival of” our churches” to the tithe, while the true Church of Christ is over flowing with the hungry, homeless, the naked, the orphans and widows completely stranded when the so called churches are overflowing with wealth.
11a. A. If the Lord loved me enough to leave heaven’s glory to give Himself for me, is He so poor that He should need my tithe? 11b. He became poor that I may become rich (Lazarus and the rich fool).
IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY – IF NOT THEN DISREGARD>>>
11a. Response: You are asking me to lean onto my own understanding (Lust of the eye). While I do not full understand many things I refuse to invalidate God authority with the empty authority of what I fail to comprehend. Eve did that’s as well as many others.
11b. Response: Lazarus relied on his riches and was a fool. If your underlying point here is some comparison between people to other people in regards to wealth and their ability to tithe because they have their wherewithal to do so while others do not…
Scripture make it quite clear that this argument has no weight in truth. I do understand the distasteful actions of Lazarus and the price he paid. I also understand how people and take one distasteful action to justify not doing another.
11. The early Christians, without the tithe lived on Christ’s love supported by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:44-47), and the scriptures say that the end of the commandment (law) is charity (1Tim. 1:5). Charity or love is one law that the Lord introduced in His Church and it worked very well until the Ananias and Saphira syndrome finally infected the church and selfishness crept in that the tithe raised its shadowy face again.
Response: (Acts 2:44-47 cannot be considered without James 2:1-26) Tithing (tool word) is an act of love and not law after Pentecost.
(1 Tim 1:5 Love or Charity) also see (1 Cor 13:1-13)
What is the meaning of Love or Charity (KJV)?
It is a love that has actions. Love without actions is not Love at all. Faith without works is dead.
Consider Gal 5:6b. but faith worked by love.
Faith is actually love in action. You are saved by faith is actually not a complete and clear statement when considering all text. You are saved by loving God in actions words and deeds. (Romans 10:9-10) A faith that has no works is the same thing as a love that has no works.
My closing comments:
This is far short of a complete discussion. I have had the time today to contribute with a little more clarity. I just sow here and water there… sometimes I get real wet in the process (Prov 11:25)
A few points of consideration:
1. I agree that you would be hard pressed to contribute to ministry today without the painful realization that it is not being excepted as God would have it.
2. Church in the OT was always a location. (Building or tent, ect., ect.)
3. Church in the NT is a people and no longer a structure.
4. You mentioned Ananias and Saphira.
All the disciples (those that were in agreement) were contributing in agreement (one-accord) to that group (Church).
Ananias and Saphira were not acting in spirit and truth. They were flagellant. They were trying to act like a Christian brother and sister dut in actuality were not. They were try to deceive.
Let us remember that this was post-Pentecost or NT and in the period of Grace.
5. The question in my mind is not some much the covenant as it has changed from law to grace.
It is not so much that the law of tithing was hypocritical in its final nature.
I do think that some did tith lawfully and without any hypercriticism in their spirit in the early OT.. However by the epistles I think the entire Church was pretty hypocritical not only about tithing but much of the law.
6. Today when we talk about tithing (tool word) in the NT we are most often implying by custom that this means a 401(c)(3) charity that is a business church. This is not what tithing means in the NT. It means (as in Acts 5) that there is a tithing cooperative. It is by the Church for the Church. Many use Tithing moneys for evangelism bypassing the Church members themselves. The Bible talks about people that do not take care of family first. There are priorities and family always comes first.
In regards to the change in priesthood as a priesthood that was just supposed to receive the tithe. The same tithe is required by priests as well. All priests also were supposed to contribute that same as everyone else. To say that 1/12 tribe (Levites) received 11/12 tribes tithes is really inaccurate. 1/12 received 12/12 tithes. Then the tithe was used by the Levites (yes for their support) but also for the needs of the other 11/12 tribes as God directed.
Let me close with this last comment as I know this is not the end. If you give anything to another Christian in love that is a tithe. This is where we are today. We are all a royal priesthood, a holy generation. If you attend a weekly bible study (Just a the disciples did in the early Church in secret) then you should be tithing into that fellowship (in one accord) for the holy purposes of that fellowship.
One accord not by mans design but by God’s which is 10%. Not connected to God through law to in a hypocritical sense but in love (in spirit and truth).
This three way commitment between two and God is evident through all relationships. It is most often referred to in the marriage relationship between one man and one woman and God. Every marriage is a three way union.
We say were two or three are gathered together God is in the midst. (Matt 18:20) Are we trying to change what we say is in the midst. God does not change and tithing is our part of the relationship. The reason for our interaction with God has changed from Law to Grace… THAT IS ALL!!!
How can you say that you love God who you have not seem when you do not love your brother who you have seen. (1 John 4:20-21) When I tithe to the church …..
Ahhhhh Let me make this real real – real clear and personal.
When I loving give to my brother I am giving to God. God tells to love him in my actions (LOVE is FAITH that WORKS) 10% or more. My brothers and sisters are the Church wither they identify themselves as a 401©(3) or not. As a matter of fact 401(c)(3) has nothing to do with this subject in truth. We are priest taking care of priest in and through the loving acts God has taught us throughout history. God does not change and my truest loving actions should not as well because God make no provisions for that.
As a matter of fact God acknowledges greater acts of love like giving my life for another as one example.
I hope and pray this is a little easier to read than my last post.
Robert you opened your statement about a weight on y head and I do consider that a complement. However, let me change that characterization a little bit.
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 & Matthew 11:29-10)
Always in Love or not at all!!!
Forgive my type-O’s… I just re-read my last post and would like to re-do the grammer but will let it go… I think you all will understand the meaning… I usually write and read after a few days before letting something go. This board stuff is new to me and sort of quick…
Be Blessed…
Jared,
I’m sorry, but I fail to see how several of your references have anything to do with what you are claiming they do. One example:
Change #2
To This: Israel could only give items grown from within the promised land. (Deut 12:5)
Deut 12:5 But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put His name there, even unto His habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Can you explain to me how that verse says that you can only give tithes that came from within Israel? Unless I’m seriously missing it, that verse is talking about how you have to come to where God said to come to “offer” your tithe, not where it can come from.
There are several more occassions in your list that I found errors, but I do not have time to address. Perhaps more studying is required to come to a better conclusion…or at least take care of the obvious errors in your thoughts on this…
James, thanks for pointing out the errors. I don’t know why Deut 12:5 is there; you are right, it has nothing to do with my point. The whole chapter of Deuteronomy 12 clarifies this more, but more or less, it’s a conglomerate of passages that clarify this. There’s no direct verse that states, “only tithe on crops within Israel”.
Leviticus 27 may be clearer as it states, “And all the tithe ‘of the land’, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s: it is holy unto the Lord”
This is not a vague reference ‘of the land’. In context, this was in specific reference to the Holy Land of Israel. You can read many references prior to Lev 27 to get an understanding that God was talking about anywhere, but only the land of Israel.
Lev 14:34, 18:3, 20:22, 20:24, 23:10, 25:2, 25:38, 26:42
Once again, thanks. My references should have been more thoroughly thought out. I know you said you don’t have time, but if there are other errors that need to be addresses, can you let me know?
It’s my view, and I believe I am correct that when God says He doesn’t change, it means His Character doesn’t change.
It doesn’t mean He doesn’t implement His plan which He makes planned gear changes so to speak. There have been plenty of dispensational gear changes to accomplish Gods final plan.
But the Bible does say God Repented.
Exodus 32:12-14; 2 Samuel 24:16; 1 Chronicles 21:15; Psalm 106:45; Jeremiah 4:28; 18:8; 26:3, 13, 19; 42:10; Joel 2:13-14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:9-10; 4:2