Rick Warren is wrong again on tithing about your requirement to tithe to the church organization. He posted an article that you can read it here. Let’s evaluate some of his statements.
This is the principle of tithing: You give the first 10 percent of your income back to God.
Yep, we all know that Israel never gave the tithe first. The first fruit offering was given prior to the tithe harvest. First fruits and tithing were not synonymous. First fruits were blemish-free and the best of the crop. God specifically says that they were not to choose their tithe based on how bad or good it was. They were to set the 10th aside. That’s right, they were not even to set the 1st aside. Just the 10th.
Where should you tithe? Do you tithe to United Way? Or do you tithe to your brother who’s been out of work for three years? No. That’s charity. Tithing is an act of worship. It goes to God.
Did he really just say that giving to your brother who is out of work does not worship God? Does Mark 9:41 come to mind?
Malachi 3:10 says, “‘Bring to the storehouse a full tenth of what you earn (NCV)
Obviously, he is reading from a bible that fits his own theology. Israel didn’t give a 10th of what they earned. They gave a tenth of the increase that God gave them. I can’t emphasize that it was what “GOD” gave them. it wasn’t what they earned. Please read my post that explains why Israel only gave food. Rick Warren probably doesn’t know that Israel only gave a tenth of food and animals. Carpenters, bankers, doctors, lawyers, tax collectors didn’t give a single coin for a tithe. They kept ALL that they earned and were not allowed to give it as a tithe at all.
When are you supposed to tithe? You do it on the day you worship. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 16:2, “On every Lord’s Day each of you should put aside something from what you have earned during the week, and use it for this offering.
Not only are we requiring you to give a minimum. Not only are we requiring that it has to go to a 501(c)(3). But now you are required to give it on the first day of the week. Of course, this is the day of worship, since you don’t worship God on the other 6 days of the week.
If you give 9% – Bad. If you give it to the needy –Bad. If you give it on a Monday – Bad.
Rick Warren’s scriptural error
I’m not against the various biblical translations, but let’s be real, the New Century Version (NCV) doesn’t even come close to representing any original text. I get it. All the translations have errors due to human interpretation, but it just blows my mind when preachers scour dozens of loosely written interpretations for quotes that fit best with their message.
There are basic elementary principles that a man who claims to be a follower of God’s word should know if they are going to preach about this topic:
- Malachi 3:10 doesn’t state ‘give a full tenth of what you earn’.
- Proverbs 3:9-10 is not in reference to tithing.
- Israel didn’t give a tithe from anything but their crop and animal increase.
- Tithing was not ‘first’.
Since he can’t even get the easy facts straight in this case, he should be disqualified from speaking about tithing forevermore. It doesn’t take much research, nor does it take a Ph. D., nor are these simple facts even controversial; and yet, he got the simple parts wrong. Sigh.
Lenny says
You do not have to look far to find false teachers. Why should they be called false teachers if they don’t wrestle with or twist the scriptures? Interesting indeed.
Lenny says
The popular preachers are the most dangerous false teachers because of their blind followers who will accept and believeve nothing.
Lenny says
My book: THE TITHING DILEMMA and THE TRIUMPHS OF LOVE is there for all serious and discerning Believers to read and face the reality over tithing. I would like my readers to challenge me on this subject. I am not surprised that Ricky Warren is mixing things. There is no scripture in the New Testament teaches tithing or promotes it. NONE AT ALL. All there is, is the creation of religious minds that are not in touch with the Holy Spirit who is the ultimate Teacher of the New Testament believer. In all the apostles teachings, none of them has ever wasted the valuable time on teaching tithing. These men of God are certainly serving a different “god” – their belly.
James Sundquist says
Dr. Russell Kelly, who did his doctorate on tithing wrote exposes on RIck Warren, Tony Evans and Gary North (just posted) at:
I hope you will consider posted them on your website.
3 articles Biblical Rebuttals of Gary North
By Dr. Russell Kelly:
http://tithing-russkelly.com/id230.html
http://tithing-russkelly.com/id231.html
http://tithing-russkelly.com/id232.html
Jared Brian says
James
Thanks for the links. There are references to Dr Kelly’s materials all over this site. Glad to always have more ;)
Don Hank says
But, Rick, where can I get an unblemished dollar?
James Sundquist says
Jeff Maples just wrote an article on Rick Warren’s latest sermon to his church exhorting them to tithe and sign a covenant:
http://www.psalm12outreach.com/2015/05/rick-warren-teaching-twisting-scripture-teaching-storehouse-tithing-and-word-of-faith.html
Tony Isaac says
If someone had told me Rick Warren said all that I would never have believed. The bible twisting is shocking beyond belief. He completely ignored the context of Deuteronomy 14: 23 and made it say what he wanted. He left out the fact that God commanded the people to eat their tithes in His presence so that they will learn to fear Him.
Including firstfruit into the mix showed either immaturity in the handling of the word or deceit and that is a complete shame. Buttressing his point with 1 Corinthians 16 is most certainly a different gospel and that people believe all that rubbish without any objections is truly lamentable.
leroi archer says
I have discussed for years the titling aspect and they preachers have all told the congregation that they should give on the gross. If you plant 1000 acres of wheat and the grasshoppers eat up 200 acres, then your net is 800 ten percent of that is 80 you can give on what you net not your gross preachers have been lying for years,
Cathy Blanchard says
Thank You for clarifying scripture for me. All my life I have heard—-give 10%’or else.
I tried a new church today and tithing was the sermon topic. I left frustrated knowing I can’t live up to that.
I am disabled and living on only social security.
Thanks for lifting a guilt burden off me. It’s sad Rick Warren is deceived himself—-since he has access to the masses.
Cathy :-)
John says
“They were to set the 10th aside. That’s right, they were not even to set the 1st aside. Just the 10th.”
the funny side of this paragraph he didn’t use fractions to illustrate for the people to see. Tenth of God can be written as 1/10 and not 9/10 or 10/10. 1/10 can be considered as the first fruit of ur income.
everything must come in first like the first born when it comes to God. so what prompts them to dismiss it? because the don’t believe in God.
try this one it’s effective and an eye opener.
Matthew 22:37-40 New International Version (NIV)
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’-This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
where do we place God in full view of this commandment?
Leonard Bupanda says
There are times when our human minds takes over the spiritual mind. Therefore, it is easy for the scripture twisters, whether deliberately or not, to take advantage of the human aspect to deceive us. There are several reasons that have been put forward why the tithe should or must not be practised today. But our God fearing mind still thinks the tithe and tithing are important.
Others are even saying that the Spirit convicted them. Which Spirit? The Holy Spirit never goes against the Word of God. I would like people, Christians included to argue against the following facts:
1. Tithing cannot and will never be a principle of giving because it is only a logical creation of our mind with no scriptural support.
2. From Jesus , the Master, never encouraged it but castigated the tithers.
3. The Holy Spirit, the greatest Teacher, never mentioned it nor did He ever encourage it.
4. Never did Jesus command to give to the church as building. It is important that we search the scriptures rather than make things sound right.
These are my convictions arising from the scriptures.
1. You as a Christian, you were created for good works (Matt. 5:14-16; Eph.2:10). Through your good works, your Father in heaven is glorified.
2. Jesus tough about giving alms, not to church or to the pastor. We all know what giving alms mean: God, our Father, who sees what we give in secret will reward us. That is a promise (Matt. 6:1-4).
3. Jesus upheld and commanded to give alms rather than the tithe (Luke 11.39-42). This is the Master and Saviour making it very clear what kind of giving He, HIMSELF, approved. In verse 42, he clearly ruled out the tithe but encouraged giving alms from such as we have, thus broadening the sources and resources from which we are urged to give, (Matt. 25:31-46). All these scriptures show very clearly that the giving we are discussing is very much off the mark. Read Matt. 25:31-41. It is about giving to people rather than giving to church, or church buildings or pastors. These have just high jacked the meaning of giving to God. Jesus has shown us how to give to God and to Him and how to glorify the Father by our giving. If we do not do the things mentioned in Matthew 25:31-41, we have to ask ourselves who is teaching us the truth.
I am fully convinced that the tithe has no place among Believers today if indeed they truly believe in the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Moving on further, We have Paul talking about the giving he received from the Philippians, They gave to Paul when they saw that he needed support. Then Paul asked the Macedonians to contribute in order to assist the needy brethren in Jerusalem. What they collected was not a tithe, but as one purposed in his or her heart.So the, how does the tithe come in as a principle where did this principle idea come from? I believe it came because, it is just too difficult to get rid of the tithe when we have physical structures standing and preachers need their salaries. Therefore our focus for giving has been swayed from the true and original recipients to those we now think deserve our giving.
That is not all, all the types of the Old Testament have found fulfilment in Christ. The Law had the sacrifices, offerings and tithes. But when Christ, they all came to the end (John1:45) and in came GRACE and TRUTH with CHARITY (John 1:14;17). If indeed the Lord was full of grace and truth, It becomes difficult for me to see why we should embrace the things He never taught and ignore the things He taught in the scriptures; the good Samaritan is one expression of compassion and charity at best as Paul in 1 Cor. 13:1-13 explains in detail. The tithe is completely irrelevant where there is genuine charity (LOVE with Compassion) (Acts 2:44-47; 4:31-37). Evidently, this is the giving the Holy Spirit put in place, completely removing the idea of the tithe away from the group that had things common. They sold, not their farm produce, but their possessions and brought them at the feet of the Apostles. But take note that the Apostles were not involved in the affairs of running the donations. Other people were appointed to do so.
Normally when we are discussing giving, rarely stop to think of the place of charity in our Christian life as Christ Himself would have us do. The apostles are all in obedience and endeavoured to incorporate CHARITY in the doctrine, while the tithe is completely left out. Let us see how many times the word charity appears in the Apostles’ teaching: 1Cor. 1:8. 1 Cor. 13-13; 1 Cor.14:1; 1 Cor.16:14; Col.3:14; 1 Thes.3:6; 2Thes.1:3; 1 Tim.1:5; 1 Tim.2:15; 1Tim.4:12: Tim. 2:22; 1 Peter 4:8; 2Peter 1:7:Jude 12;Rev.2:19.
In the last book in the Bible, REVELATION, the Lord acknowledges the works of CHARITY
Although the word CHARITY and LOVE are interchangeably used, the meaning of loving with a compassionate heart is the core message of all these appeals.
I strongly believe this is the APOSTLES DOCTRINE and anything outside this, that includes the tithe, must be left where they belong, to the doctrines of men. But when you marry alms and charity together, the Lord said: “Go and do thou likewise.” (Luke 11:36-37). For more though on the tithe please read my Book: The Tithing Dilemma and The Triumphs of Love (CHARITY).
John says
Can I ask you, Leo?
Considering life is also precious even in the time of Malachi, why would God prescribe death on those breakers if the law of tithe will come to naught in the later times?
Because if we consider what is written in Mal 3:8-9, withholding tithe is robbing God and robbing naturally breaks the commandment of God that connects to stealing, and the consequence from breaking it is written in Mal 4:1 which is death.
Leonard Bupanda says
Brother John,
Thank you very much for your question. I know how much the importance of the tithe has been drummed down our throats and hearts. The problem is that some times we read the word of God with filtering glasses that pick what we want to hear rather than believe the Holy Spirit to teach us as He taught the uneducated fearful fishermen whom He turned into fearless and bold witnesses and teachers of the word. The lesson we have failed to pick from these men is that the Lord promised them that He will send them the Holy Spirit who will lead them IN ALL TRUTH (John 15:26-27; 16:13). Just like their Master, Jesus Christ, they neither taught nor practised tithing. Even when the Holy Spirit came, He introduced a giving of a different kind in witch Believers sold their possession and brought them to be shared so that no one lacked (Acts 2:42-47). These new believers were being taught charity in practice, not the tithe. The Apostles doctrine did not include giving through the tithe because the gentiles who came in had no land to grow the produce on. Therefore, the tithe was specifically for Israel who occupied the land the Lord secured for them. The tithe had to come from that land alone, and no where else.
My brother, I would like to draw your attention to a Jew and Levite, Joses, dearly called Barnabas (the son of consolation) He went and sold his land in Cyprus and brought the money at the feet of the apostles. Was this a tithe from the tribe that was used to receiving tithes? Barnabas, Ananias and Sapphira knew the meaning of the tithe very well. But when the Holy Spirit came, giving took a different but a selfless turn (Acts 2:44,45). Acts 4:33 attributes this to the power and resurrection of the Lord Jesus which they witnessed and the great grace that was upon them all. Verse34 and 35 emphasise the oneness and how that no one lacked because distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Brother John, it only takes the work of the Holy Spirit to break the yoke and shackles of selfishness in man. Many of us do not know how much the tithe entrenches our selfishness and pride.
The other thing you mentioned is the preciousness of life and how those who withheld the tithe faced death. I can’t understand why you cannot see the death of Ananias and Sapphira as a serious warning to those who lie to God and to the Holy Spirit in their giving (Acts 5:3,9). Please, read the whole story from v1-11.
Brother John, Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and God? Do you believe He is the WORD? The Father at the mountain of transfiguration said”This is my beloved son in whom I am very well pleased, Hear ye Him.” The question is. How many times did the Lord teach about giving alms both implicitly and explicitly? How many times did he teach about giving to the poor? Isn’t that charity? Also how many times did He encourage tithing? When people exclaimed ” Never man spake like this man”, what did that mean? The Lord asked very plainly ” And why call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke6:46). Do we know that He is the Father’s spokes man? (Heb.1:1-3).
Brother John, I am talking about the words of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, not the words of the prophet (Matt.25:31-41). Can man rob God? Jesus is actually reliving that question in Matt. 25:31-41. What we do not see is the similarity between Malachi 3:8-9 and Matthew 25:31-46. We are so much occupied with religious rituals that we cannot even listen to the prompting of the Spirit regarding our giving. I am fully convinced that those who love the Lord will embrace His love and share it through such as they have (Luke 11:41). This is a very interesting and important scripture because it reflects the Lord’s mind on the kind of giving He expects of those who have believed in Him. It is even more interesting because “giving alms from such as you have” had nothing to do with washing hand and the tithe. Giving alms, not a 10% from what? but deciding to give from the variety of human needs (Matt. 25:31-41). We all have something to give out to some one in need of one thing or another. But we are so much blinded by selfishness that we cannot even see beyond our noses. Hence the needy brothers and sisters among us go unnoticed when we are cheerfully giving those who already have
No man ever taught about charity more than the Lord Himself did, but who has listened? The word of God is there for all to read, but it matters the most how and what we read and practice.
My last submission , brother, is that in the New Testament, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not connected, or associated with the tithe. But they are all associated with giving with genuine love and compassion, with cheerfulness, and the Father will reward those who do so.
I am available brother John, just in case I have not made it clear enough. However, the Holy Spirit is there to help if indeed we need to understand more. The Jews no longer tithe- they understand better than the gentiles who are keen to practice what they don’t seem to understand.
God bless Brother John
John says
thanks for the respond you sent me and from these exchanges I think we can share some information we need to know with regard to his law.
the fact is I don’t belong to any group of religions of this world in fear of something that it might cost me my freewill to choose.
because only God can offer me a good religion and no man will ever do that to me.
right now I’m in the midst of searching the true doctrine of Jesus Christ as you can prove me through my series of questions on this forum.
I just want to know your real position when Paul himself said that the collection of the tithe was transferred its authority from the Levite Priest to our high priest Melchizedek in Hebrew 7:8
But there is one thing that each of us must know why this tithe is to last forever.
I found from Jesus statement when he confronted the Jews for having raised the Caesar’s tax.
“Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
Despite the fact that the question raised is all about the tax collections, he chose to bring up God in this issue and from his statement he left a clue that sent me to contemplate deeper of what it meant to imply.
I found that God’s creation is in dual form. he first created the world in heaven before earth and universe were created.
all the living things were set up first in heaven including angels and they were governed by God’s law for a long time.
Angels like humans built cities too and we could say he replicated the heavenly things then later set them up on earth. The stars therefore in heaven is a memorial symbol dedicated to God’s angels.
Now if Caesar received a tenth from the people, this also brings to a conclusion that God received his tithe from his angels too.
For easy understanding of God’s purpose here are some examples that I found in the bible.
.
1. God replicated himself to Man [Gen 1:26]
2. Invisible Heaven – Physical heaven [earth and Universe]
3. Angels – Animals?
4. God’s throne – Jerusalem or earth
5. God’s kingdom – Man’s kingdom
6. Tithe – Tax
Now if the taxation is entitled to the human government then rest assure that the tithing law is to God’s kingdom.
If we remove the tithe then what’s the sense of paying our taxes to the government? the logic is there and I want people not to be ignorant of this analogy of giving.
it’s important to know that the Kingdom of God will be set up on this earth and will restore his tithing law in full pledge as one the requirements of support for his kingdom which is about to be united with the kingdom that was set up in heaven.
John says
The matter of choice is for us, it’s either we change our position or we die with it. what is your answer?
Leonard Bupanda says
Brother John,
I have read your contribution with great interest. In it I found a few mixtures of things, some of which are way out of the thread of the discussion at hand.
Brother John, please allow me to agree that no one can take away from you the free will to choose. However, things change when we submit that free will to the Holy Spirit.
Without much ado, I wish to reply to your analogy of Caesar’s tax. I hope that my explanation of “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” will help us both to understand the true meaning of the teaching behind it. This is found in Matthew 22:17-21. The tragedy is that many believers have been made to believe like you do, brother John. If we were to examine the scriptures properly as we are required to do, we would have found out the truth.
Let us consider the few questions from the scripture which the Lord himself asked. He Himself carried no money on Him for the reason that we shall discuss later if I don’t forget, that is. But if I do, please do remind me. The Lord did not carry any coin on Him. So, He asked for a coin from someone else. When we do not pause to think about the questions, “Why tempt ye me , ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute (tax) money. Whose is this image and inscriptions (writings or engravings)?” The simple fact is that the tax money had Caesar’s image and writings on it. This simply means that Caesar was the authority whose image appeared on of the day money. Therefore, He controlled it wherever it went and was found.
It is my sincere belief, therefore, that for that reason the Lord could not carry the image of a mortal man on Him. As a matter of fact, He could not be carrying Caesar’s image. But it was incumbent upon Caesar’s subjects to give to Caesar back the money that bore Caesar’s image.
I hope, you are following my thoughts, Brother John. So, when the questioners confirmed that the money bore Caesar’s image and inscriptions, the Lord said, ” Render, therefore, unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”; Had the Lord ended there, there would have been no confusion. Moreover, the confusions reigns because the Lord added; “… and unto God the things that are God’s.”
I personally have no problem with this scripture at all. There is no reason to support the claim that the Lord was advocating giving Caesar’s image and inscriptions to God. Both the image and the inscriptions BELONGED TO CAESAR. The Lord said” give them back to Caesar to whom they belonged and to whom they made sense.
The question we need to ask ourselves is WHAT THINGS ARE GOD’S then? We cannot give to God the things that belong to others or bear other people’s image and inscriptions. Therefore, for this reason I stand convinced that giving to God what is God’s does not mean money as long as that money bears someone’s image.
God has things that belong to Him because they bear His image. In Genesis 1:26 God said” Let us make man in our image, in our likeness …. ” In verse 27 reads; “So God created man in His OWN IMAGE in the image of God created He him, male and female created He them.” These verses identify the fact that man (male and female) bears God image and the inscription “in His image created He them.” I am not surprised that The Lord Jesus carried no other image on Him serve that which came from heaven (John 17:3). The Lord belonged to a different Kingdom, not Caesar’s. That is the reason why the money He gave for the temple tribute or tax came from His creation and not from the pockets of men. It is, therefore, in line with scripture to claim that the things that belong to God is money in the form of the tithe. That is all the more reason why the actual tithe came from the land,and in animal form; not from the factory or any other profession. The children of Israel planted in the ground and God gave the increase but only from the land. They also reared animals but on the same land that He brought them to.
These are facts hidden from those who want us to believe that we should give money to God. No, we are God’s creation, and we all bear His image. Therefore, we need to fully give ourselves to God first for we primarily belong to Him and we need to acknowledge that before we can engage in any form of giving.
Brother John, those people who came to ask that question in Matthew 22 knew exactly what the Lord meant in His answer. He was asking them to be willing to give themselves to God, whose image they bore; not the money that bore Caesar’s image. So we pay tax because we give back the image on the tax money. But to God we need to surrender our souls to who will requires it at the end of each life (Eccl. 12:7). I believe it is in this context that Matt. 22:17-21 was spoken. But in Christ and Christ alone we have eternal life. It is the best deposit ever, (John 1:11-12; 3:14-19). Therefore, we must give ourselves to God 100% before we can make a meaningful giving. Besides, the full cost of our salvation is not 10%. So where does the 10% come from, especially that gentile were excluded from paying the tithe?
John says
“We cannot give to God the things that belong to others or bear other people’s image and inscriptions”
I’d been very vocal on this issue about this statement of “what is to caesar’s and to God’s.”
we never read of Jews raising the questions of “equality” after he paired God to that of Caesar which something they could use against him.
it’s understood that Jews of a long time ago accepted Jesus’ words and treated them with high regard. the only possible thing that is more convincing to believe when we chose to live in that situation must be the tithe they’d been paying in Jesus days.
Treating God in a way of comparing him to a lower human leader can be synonymous to desecration and, therefore, a crime that would send Jesus to death just like the same accusations they made against him.
however the record is clear and the Jews never raised an issue of blasphemy with regards to paying bills in the best timing they could have to press Jesus for his conviction.
please feel free to read Luke 23:2
“And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”
so what things that made me believe that Jesus’ statement was more of God’s replicating the real things rather than believing on his statement in a manner of receiving it in a traditional way?
One good example to make is the creation of man. because he was created after the image of God where he can also create man after the image of a man.
so why would he choose to replicate himself to man?
the solution for this that if the word man can be translated as a representative of his own government (because no man would ever live without a government) and God, a representative of his kingdom what exactly the statement wanted to express?
..And God said, Let us make a human government according to our government with a set of rules for them to follow.
we can also read the statement in Hebrew 8:5 as a source to support my claim about an act of God’s replicating things.
“See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”
John says
The above statement is plain and simple that if the tax is to honor a government, what do we expect of God’s tithe?
paying tithe in some other translations means a tribute or more possibly an honor to God’s kingdom.
Let’s take an example another Jesus statement Matthew 6:33.
“But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”
the statement implies a promise of material things that if you seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness all things will be added.
what law that will make a man a righteous?
please read Malachi 3.
“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.”
Tithe is the only law with a promise according to Malachi 3.
now if we regard tithing an act of righteousness then what would become of Jesus’ statement if we rephrase it into a more comprehensible statement?
“But seek first his kingdom and his tithing law (righteousness), and all these things will be given to you as well.”
so it’s, therefore, a tribute to God’s kingdom, the same way a man paid his tax.
John says
“He Himself carried no money on Him for the reason that we shall discuss later”
I think we should respect of what the bible stated rather than assuming things and mixed up the whole story.
The church had started to function during the days of Jesus and not after his resurrection.
he carried no money? yes ofcourse! because Judas was his treasurer and the issue of tax was not raised by Jesus but the jews around him.
so it’s reasonable for Jesus to request for a penny from them, the best respond for their craftiness.
would you agree on this?
Ben says
I am amazed how much “wisdom” and scholarship is claimed in the name of tithing. Don’t be a Rick Warren hater. So many of you tickling your own ears with your self righteousness. Such Pharisees UR. Please stay in your own ivory towers of self righteousness. Attack Joel Osteen please. He and his wife are such a self amplifying blind leading the blind.
John says
Tithing does not make us in a right path. the statement of Jesus made plain about it that we should first seek God’s kingdom along with his righteous laws and there’s only one church who preached this gospel.
so it’s like you’d been paying ur bill to an impostor but still your bill wasn’t paid such as the like of Rick Warren and his practices or anybody else who preached the false gospel to the people, who believed in a reverse tithing rather than giving the tenth to God.
who is he to receive and be awarded by this holy tithe of God? this is obviously an act of overrighteous.
“Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise -ecc 7:16 “
John says
“Without much ado, I wish to reply to your analogy of Caesar’s tax. I hope that my explanation of “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” will help us both to understand the true meaning of the teaching behind it”
One good reason to support this tithe claim in Mathew 22 is the way Jesus formed his statement for the Jews.
“give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
the verb “give” was use only once which is intended for the two subjects.
whenever we encounter this kind of statement it brings to my mind of what Malachi had said to the breakers of tithe.
Let’s read Malachi statement and compare it to Mathew 22.
“When you offer blind animals for sacrifice, is that not wrong?
When you sacrifice lame or diseased animals, is that not wrong?”
“Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you?” says the LORD Almighty”
God himself said that to prove a honest heart in giving or offering he should first apply it to a human leader just like what Jesus did to such occasion.
so the verb “give” brings a clearer picture of what is due to Caesar is also due to God.
we can derive his statement in algebraic form,
such as: AB + AC
where A = give, B = Caesar and C = God
did u get the message?
Leonard Bupanda says
Brother John,
You are mixing things. A tithe is a tenth of the land produce that came from the land the Lord gave to the eleven tribes of children of Israel, to give to the priestly tribe of Levi who had no land to cultivate on. This tribe also gave a tenth to the priests who served in the temple. That is how the tenth worked. It was not a tax. A tax was totally different. It was introduced by the Romans. You seem to be confusing the two.Chiefly, the tenth came from the land that the Lord gave to the Children of Israel to settle in. They never tithed outside that land. Moreover, it was not money like the present pretended tithe is taken to be. So, which land are you taking your tithe from? What Levite tribe are you giving to? Which Levite priests are you giving to, which temple is your tithe being taken to? Gentiles have never been connected to the tithe at any given time because it was confined only to the 12 tribes of Israel. So, which tribe of Israel do you come from? Who represented you when the tithe was put in place ? If you are truly serious with the word of God, There is not a single scripture that connects a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ to the practice of the tithe. Only the spiritually blind and the false teachers tend to cling to it. Just in case you want to point me to the letter to the Hebrews, I suggest that you think again, because that letter was written to the Hebrews and not the gentiles, even though we can learn a lot of things from it. Therefore you will never find the tithe mentioned in the epistles to the gentiles.
However, no one is stopping you from tithing. You seem to know what you are doing. I would rather stick to the way of giving that the Lord, through the Holy Spirit unveiled – CHARITY (Matt 25:31- 46), which became the practice in Acts chapters 2 and 4. Paul talks about charity 1Cor. 13 and 14:1, Peter encourages it, especially hospitality, the Apostle John, in his letter recommends it(1 John3:14-18), James approves it (James 1:27; 2;-13) and Jude warns us verses 4-13. That, I believe, is the kind of giving we are expected to to do as taught by the apostles. This is the apostles’ doctrine whether we argue or not and it contains no word about the tithe.
Brother John, read these scriptures. May be you are already subscribing to a false teacher, one who will gladly received your tithe and part you on the back. There is no room for tithe in the apostles’ teaching. Find me one if you can especially one directed at gentiles.
I still maintain that the Lord never walked with a coin or any money on Him. When He was asked about paying the temple tribute, He sent Peter to got and catch a fish and get money from there and it was enough for Himself and Peter. The problem is that when we are blinded by the tithe even other scriptures become invisible. He would have asked Judas to pay from the money bag. He did not. He refused to handle money bearing any man’s image. He would rather borrow than hire. Think about this; the boat He preached from, the womb, the tom, the donkeys, the passover room. These are not assumptions, consult your Bible or your pastor if need be. Money never changed hands in His presence. He belonged to a different Kingdom altogether. I will appreciate if you give me proof to the contrary.
God bless
John says
you said: “A tithe is a tenth of the land produce that came from the land the Lord gave to the eleven tribes of children of Israel,”
Unless you are blinded by your half truth tenth, you won’t be able to see what was written in Genesis 14:20.
it was proven useful in any occasion like what Abraham did to his tenth in his time.
Abraham was not either a farmer or a fisherman to know the rule of this tithing law yet he tithed his earnings to the Lord which posed a mock to your half truth tenth instantly.
“Abram gave him a tenth of everything – Gen 14:20”
Yes, everything and that’s what Moses wrote to mean all!
i guess your half truth tenth needs to rest and let the bible speaks for itself.
there was no historical record how this tithe came out so suddenly and became a law in the ancient times. Russel Kelly failed to trace this tenth in his article, his historical tenth is traceable only to the Assyrian tenth but nothing more. the origin of the nation’s tenth remained unknown.
this tenth and Melchizedek went hand in hand in the bible and they shared the same infinite time of existence.
no matter how old they have been, they are to exist even at the end of times.
now read exactly what Paul had said in Heb 7:8,
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people (mortal Levites) who die; but in the other case, by him (Melchizedek / Jesus eternal ) who is declared to be living.”
no doubt Paul’s tenth is forever and his statement will be a stumbling block for the offenders like you.
again why would God prescribe death on those breakers according to Malachi if the law of tithe is likely to be ignored today?
so which of them was more precious to God, was it Life or his Tithe?
i guess this would be your assignment to be discussed.
John says
you said: “no one is stopping you from tithing”?
well, where will you place yourself in Malachi statement?
“Will a mortal man rob God?
Unless you’re not a man to prove this statement you may forever excuse yourself from fulfilling a God’s law.
However, Malachi never said that it was for the Jews or Hebrews only.
he branded those offenders as robbers and i’m sure you won’t be bothered calling you a thief by that statement.
robber steals God’s money and it breaks the law of God about stealing.
Jesus said that in order to fulfill this commandment one must have practiced justice, mercy and faithfulness as the requirements needed.
He never said tenth is to be ignored under his new testament ruling.
So Paul and Jesus are supporters of this law.
Leonard Bupanda says
Brother John,
Thanks for all the names you have called m. To honest, They haven’t moved me an inch, neither have they affected me in any way at all. Moreover, I refuse to be persuaded to go down that lane. It is a loveless and desperate lane.
I gave you a number of scriptures from the New Testament that apply to every BLOOD BOUGHT Christian of every tribe and nation. To put on Christ and to put on CHARITY which is the end of the commandment 1Tim 1:5, must be our responsibility. Now, I am very surprised that you deny the fact that the message in Malachi was meant the Israel. I don’t know the kind of Bible you are reading because Malachi 1:1 makes it very clear the message was for Israel. It say: ” The burden of the word of the Lord TO ISRAEL by Malachi. Chapter 2:1 also says, ” And now , O ye priests, this commandment is for you.” For who? For Gentiles? Read again.
There a few corrections to make from your understanding go Genesis from 14:20.When I said that a tithe is given without much conscience, I know that is true because it does not question the spiritual state of the giver. Abram gave a tenth of all, not his own but loot from the war. Did it cost him anything? The secondis that Abram gave the tenth with blood on his hands. Isn’t that true?
How much and how well did Abram know God? Here comes the real test to discount the belief that Abraham gave a tenth. Seriously, I can’t see this in scripture. The giving of the tithe began with Abram and ended with Abram. When Abram’s name changed to Abraham, the friend of, he understood better what to give God – hospitality to strangers (Genesis 181-15). Later on the Lord asked Abraham for His only son, Isaac. Abraham responded and went to offer his son as the Lord demanded. All these two things did Abraham do to please his friend God. Let this thought be put to rest that Abraham gave a tenth. No, he never did. He gave the tenth as Abram, but never has it been recorded that Abraham gave a tenth again. He had graduated to a better friend of God, with better things to give, time , audience , hospitality, and finally his own only son. I am not surprised that the children of Abram are still tithing. But the children of Abraham by faith have move to giving higher things; giving ourselves to God the Father, a far higher relationship, through Christ Jesus our Lord. If we don’t see Christ through the poor, we shall never see him any other way Matthew 25:31-41), I insist.
It is common sense and evident that the God of the Old Testament had no dealings with gentiles. If you ignore this fact then there is no need to continue this discussion. Do you believe that Jesus God? Is He Lord of your life? Do you believe that Jesus is the Word? Please read Luke 6:46; “Why call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say? Here is the God of the New Testament challenging us, and you have chosen to take no notice of His word? Jesus put it very plainly that if you do not give to the people mentioned in Matthew 25:31 -41, then you don’t know Him and He does not know you, because He is Love and if you don’t practice love especially to the needy, then you don’t belong to Him even if you claim to obey God in the tithe. The tithe has not been sanctioned by the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, if so, please give me the scripture. When the Lord rose again from the dead, He never met a single tither, but only those who believed in Him. The Father rewards those who practise charity and nothing about the reward towards those who give to the poor (Matthew 6:1-3). These are all New Testament experiences. I don’t want to place myself with the tithe which lay dead for almost 800 years after the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you believe in tithing, brother go ahead. But I thank the Lord that the priesthood changed from Moses and Aaron, Levi, to that of Christ who demands no tithe. Instead He has commanded us to love and to give, because there is no love without giving. I have been bought with a the precious blood of the son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Therefore, I will give Him my whole and not the diminutive tenth. He is far much worth my whole life and not the doggy tenth, which people give even when they are living in sin. The tenth that never checks the tither’s conscience. I stand by my conviction that the tithe was for meant for reluctant loveless givers.
I would rather give the way my Lord and Saviour has instructed and demonstrated by giving Himself up for me and tells me “By these shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another” (John 13:34-35) That is where, shamelessly and without any apology and argument, I position myself and I am proud of the fact that Jesus is Lord and is mine and I am His, regardless of all the kind things you are calling me. May the Lord bless you
John says
you said: Thanks for all the names you have called m(e)……
Well pardon me for this obscene expression of mine but I think it calls for it.
Jesus had many times engaged in some informal debates with other Jews, even to the point of cursing them for their stubbornness. if I speak something hard on anyone that won’t necessary mean a hate but an example of love and faith.
actually, I love the way you respond to my critical points that I found in the bible and I am sorry to tell this that you’d been deceived by this false doctrine of giving, a false doctrine that had been handed down from the earliest time.
so now you relied so much on half truth giving and didn’t try to reconcile it with the one Paul wrote in Hebrew 7:8. you’re the one who mixed up everything and grouped them in one doctrine called Christianity.
so now how will you harmonize these two different wordings of Paul?
one example you said that the tithing in Malachi was for the priest in Israel and didn’t even try to match it in Mal 3:8 that mentioned “a mortal man”?
Yes, it was the duty of the Levite priest to handle the tithe of Israel. but then Paul said that this duty had been transferred back to Melchizedek, the high priest which was assumed by Jesus Christ himself.
are you blind to read Paul’s statement?
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people (mortal Levites) who die; but in the other case, by him (Melchizedek / Jesus eternal ) who is declared to be living.” – Heb 7:8
Are gentiles to separate themselves from Jews?
pls feel free to read Paul’s statement in Galatians 3:29.
“If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise”
always remember that Abraham tithed his earnings and his sons (Israel) did as well and you were expecting not to tithe under this as one kingdom formation? duh!
Didn’t Jesus say in Mathew 12:25,
“Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand”
and also the church was founded on top of the prophets and apostles, haven’t you read this in Eph 2:19-20?
“Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone”
founded by the prophets or supported by the old testament, right?
so where exactly can we find in the old scriptures about this no-tithe doctrine?
I don’t see anything or any law of giving that supersede the tithing law of God in the new testament. I haven’t read any verse of Jesus that he forbade the people not to tithe in the four gospels. it’s true the teachings of the church must be based on the teachings of him. but where is it? am I blind not to see this truth?
please, enough of this imaginations. all these things are a product of human imagination. I read your article but I don’t see anything that convinced me to believe it.
in fact nothing, you said that the tithing law has been abolished or superseded. this might be your handicap in proving the things of God. yes, keep babbling about this half truth giving with no foundation from the scriptures.
so now where is the answer for my previous question that I lodge on you about this life and tithe importance in Malachi?
John says
For Anyone here,
The bible can liken to a human that has a life in himself.
he needs a clean air to live. so let’s give him a space
to breathe on his own.