I’m always curious to see what churches have on their tithing envelopes. There are all kinds of tithing envelopes. There are envelopes that you can color. There are ones that have bible trivia on them. There are even ones that share a bible story on it with a full-color picture.
Tithing envelopes are created for all different age groups. Some websites make tithing envelopes from ages pre-k, all the way to adulthood.
What is a tithing envelope?
A tithing envelope is a common method for Christians to add money or checks into an offering plate. Some churches commonly refer to them as offering envelopes as well. Many choose tithing envelopes because it is discreet and easy to add either a check or cash and seal it before placing in a collection bin or offering plate.
Parts of a tithing Envelope
There are two main elements to a tithing envelope. The first is the verse. Typically the verse is Proverbs 3:9 or Malachi 3:8-10. Sometimes the envelope has 1 Corinthians 16:2, but many churches don’t put that on there, because that eludes to freewill giving instead of tithing. The second element to tithing envelopes is the informational part. This is usually your name, address, date, and amount of gift. More detailed and complex tithing envelopes have check boxes that you can designate your gift to. Other tithing envelopes have a place where you can fill in your credit card information.
Are tithing envelopes becoming obsolete?
There is no doubt that we are transforming more into a cashless society. With the explosion in donation and church apps, it is become more convenient to pay through your app rather than to carry cash or a check with you to church. The need for tithing envelopes has declined over the years. With the increase in younger generations and their comfortability in using technology, it may be a matter of time before tithing envelopes disappear.
sounddoctrine says
Well steward, you can lol all you want but this is true. The Judgement seat of Christ will define all things and we’ll see who is right. Unfortunately you are like the relatives of the rich man who died with Lazarus, you will not understand until such a time. Not even if people come back from the dead and tell you.
However, I will post this comment because you are probably thinking I have nothing else to say. I quoted many verses from the law to answer some of the questions and to clearly show you that what you were saying was not correct. Even so, you still take an erroneous road because it doesn’t bode well with your doctrine of no tithing.
I asked you the question earlier weather Abraham and Jacob were under the law and you quickly copped out.
“You need to answer for yourself”
Then you intimated that tithing had pagan origins, and therefore Abraham must have done it because he followed some paganistic ritual.
This is why I know you are not after the truth. Instead you want to maintain your doctrine. Jesus spoke of such people when he said.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
(Mat 23:24 KJV)
If you were after truth you should have scolded me for telling you to spend your money on christmass shopping but you didn’t. So you and freewillgiver don’t tithe yet you celebrate an idolatrous feast.
I hope your next post will be because you gave it some thought. I hope you think as to why did Abraham and Jacob tithe. If your answer doesn’t include any thoughts on that, I will confirm that you are not after truth, and you will be exposed.
Jared Brian says
My question back to you was whether you think Abraham and Jacob were under new covenant grace since you do not believe they were under the law. you only have 2 choices. Either they were under the law, or they are under new covenant grace. Which one is it?
Try to stay on the subject here. Let’s not get into side debates about who and why we should and should not be scolding for such and such. This is about tithing, not about my opportunity to scold one another about Christmas shopping.
We have no record in the bible that says Abraham and Jacob were required to tithe. As a matter of fact, Jacob’s vow proves that tithing is voluntary and not required, otherwise, he couldn’t have vowed something that was already required. Which brings me to the point, that if you believe that Jacob was not under the law when he voluntarily offered the tithe, then why must we adhere to Jacob’s vow when we’re not under the law either?
sounddoctrine says
Abraham lived by faith not under the law. So too every believer must live by faith. Tithing was done even before the law. So you are right we are not under the rituals of the law we are free. However, we are still under a different law, the law of Christ.
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
(1Co 9:20-21 KJV)
Are we free to do as we please? NO. There are commandments for us as well. We have been freed from sin but we are now servants of Christ.
For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.
(1Co 7:22 KJV)
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(Rom 2:14-16 KJV)
Not all of the law has passed, otherwise the ten commandments would be gone, but they are not. Concerning tithes, we don’t tithe because it is the law, but because of faith. So yes, I understand that some have attached the curses of the law to it, but even this doesn’t make it invalid. You will notice that even though the Billy Graham association does not support tithing, Billy Graham himself does. Is it voluntary, YES. Is it according to the law, NO. Must we tithe, YES. Well if it is voluntary then why should we? Well the same reason you go to church, you take communion, you give offerings, you praise and worship. Nothing is out of force, it is all voluntary but is it required? YES. By law, NO but by faith. Are we to give so we can receive? NO. However, there are promises for the giver that we can not overlook.
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
(2Co 9:6-8 KJV)
Have some people used this for their own gain? of course they have. Does it make it invalid for the rest of us. No way. So do we give to receive? NO. But God will give us grace to do it.
If you look back to your younger days, was your parents pastor a rich person? Was he living lavishly with jets, and mansions, etc. I can almost guarantee the answer to be No. So, when people like your parents have financial problems. Is it because they didn’t tithe? But they did!
There is a misconception that unfortunately you took it to heart weather because it was taught that way or because you understood it this way.
If my parents tithe, why were they so bad economically?
There are good people who suffer, God allows it for some reason, that only the person and God understand. When Jesus encountered the blind man, this happened.
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
(Joh 9:1-3 KJV)
So finally, if you want to tithe, do it, if you don’t then don’t. I tell you what I told you at the beginning, God doesn’t need your money. His is the earth and everything in it.
God bless you steward, I hope you become a faithful servant!
Jared Brian says
if it is of the faith of Abraham that we should continue tithing, then it should be the faith of Abraham that we should continue circumcision.
Romans 4:11 “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe,…” (see also John 7:22)
Your statement here, “Are we free to do as we please? NO” contradicts the very verse you claim here, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart”. Even in 2 Corinthians 8:8 in regards to giving, Paul states, “I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others”
The 10 commandments are valid because “thou shalt not murder” is born of hatred, and “thou shalt not steal” is born of greed. . . etc etc etc. Eternal laws within the 10 commandments, such as greed and hatred, are attributes that defy the character of God, and were established before the earth was even created.
It doesn’t take a Godly man to figure out that if more comes out of your pockets than goes into it, then your finances will be a wreck. The example of my parents in my testimony is to highlight that tithing does not provide a hedge of protection for poor stewards. In Matthew 25, it is the servant who returned 100% of his talents back to his master that was called, “wicked”. So considering that giving back 100% might contain wickedness, why do we spend any time at all trying to enforce 10%? This focus on achieving a precise law is what Jesus had fought hard against.
Here are some things to think about when you place the requirement of tithing upon anyone.
Abraham did not tithe from his overall wealth Hebrews 7:4
Israel gave less than 1% of their increase in spoils of war Numbers 31:9, 27-29
Jacob could not offer a tithe vow if it was already a requirement Genesis 28
A majority of Israelites didn’t tithe their occupational income Leviticus 27:30
Al Sydney says
Thank You Sounddoctrine,
Its always a blessing to read or listent to a mature christian walking in revelation knowledge.
May Gods favour and Grace rest on you.
sounddoctrine says
Ahhhh, Steward, Steward, Steward, I will tell you what Peter told Simon.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
(Act 8:21-22 KJV)
It has come to this, just like I said all along, the love of money!
It doesn’t take a Godly man! It doesn’t take a Godly man!!!!
Of course it does, but now I understand why you can’t tithe. The apostle Paul wrote:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14 KJV)
I will continue this conversation knowing full well that nothing can change your mind, but for the sake of others who might stumble upon this blog who might benefit, and so
that you can be exposed as a false teacher. The apostle Paul wrote about this when he said.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(1Ti 4:1-2 KJV)
A Godly man would understand that 90% with the blessing of God will be more than 100% without it. A Godly man would understand that the parable of the talents is not about money but only a metaphor to show us that we should be actively working for the Lord. A Godly man would remember that Jesus fed thousands with a few fish and bread. But to a natural man, it is foolish to think that God will supply even when what goes out is more than what comes in. And you know why? Steward. Because a Godly many would have FAITH.
You have said repeatedly that we are not under the law, and I have agreed in part, and told you that it is by faith, yet now you want to go back to the law to tell me that they only tithed 1% and they didn’t tithe their occupational income.
In regards to circumcision, I tell you what Jesus told the Pharisees.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
(Mat 22:29 KJV)
There is a circumcision for Gods’ people.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)
Again, only a Godly, faithful man can understand these things.
Jared Brian says
sounddoctrine,
I can spit out a bunch of verses that make you sound like an evil person as well. Some good ones- calling the pharisees snakes, and vipers, hypocrites, devours of widow’s houses. Yep, all this for their legalistic tendencies to protect the their precious laws. We can sit here and spout out accusations and condemning verses all day at one another. Let’s stop finding time to talk about what’s wrong with me, because this is not about me. This is about finding the truth in scripture about tithing. If you want to continue this debate and keep your focus on attacking me, believe me, you will find many character flaws.
I’m telling you that Israel gave less than 1% of their increase of the spoils of war, because your stand is that it is required for us to give 10% of our increase. If you are to provide proof that tithing is required today, you have to prove that these demands are consistent throughout scripture. and they are not. As i stated before- Israel only gave 1% of their increase of spoils – Jacob couldn’t have made a tithing vow if it was already required – Abraham did not tithe from his overall wealth – A majority of israelites did not tithe on their occupational income
doingHisWill says
Sounddoctrin, from what you have stated..I do not think you recommend good stewardship of God’s money. Also, you are quick to condemn and judging others. One should tithe (or offer) to God out of free-will, cheerful heart & thankfulness; for or what He has done. Actually for a Christian, 100% of our money belongs to God. So if one is not tithing, without His heart condemning him/her, God is not going to condemn. Love, Hope and Faith are greater than thith in judgment seat. If I were you, I would shy away from scaring people of using God’s judgment – I do not want to be a Job’s friend!
Also, regarding giving to two different churches or organizations – it is Ok for one to give as a good steward of God’s money. A church ought to use the money for 4 primary functions..according to old test. (but not all modern day churches do these functions) (1) feed the tribe of Levi and the priests of Aaron, (2)feed the prophets, (3)feed the Hebrew widows and orphans living within the city, and (4) feed the widows and orphans of the Gentiles who were living in and around the Hebrew city. So in my opinion..if the Holy Spirit leads one to give to other churches who are you to condemn it…Praise the Lord!!!
Freewillgiver says
Friends Sound doctrine and Al
1. Martin luther of Germany and the early leaders of the Reformation were against Christian tithing. They argued that we are all priest. Are all Christians priest? What do you think of their if all Christians are priest no tithing is possible for Christians today arguments?
2. let everyone set in their hearts what they should give. Why call Christian giving tithing when there is no percentage or place to give? Why not call Christian giving what the New testement calls Christian giving? Do you believe that today Christians can give where ever the lord directs their hearts and What ever percentage?
3. This is a multi part Question and the hardest for those arguing a required Christian Tithe. First why is Duteronomy 14 scriptures mostly avoided in most 10% money tithe teaching churches. I think it sounds too free. Please Either one of you how do we apply the beer tithe scripture concepts for Christians today?
take the money and buy what your soul lusteth after wine or strong drink to eat and rejoice in the Lord Deuteronomy 14:26
Do you believe that Christians can have more freedom with thier giving to the lord that the Jews?3b. Please either of you explain how Commanded food tithes from Jewish land owners to the poor including the land poor levites, which made them drink beer and wine if they wanted now becomes 10% expected money tithes to Christian leaders expecting the tithes for their proffessional money jobs.
4.The levites were never Given by Moses 10% of anyones money in the Old testement so Why can Christian leaders expect 10% money tithes today?
5 finally Al and Sounddoctrine
You two seem so close to being anti 10% tithing so point blank make your doctrines Clear on money tithing. If a Christian gives less than 10% to their local church are they in Sin? What do you say of Preachers who make people feel this way.
Happy new year friends mabey you will tackle the issues of Deuteronomy 14:26 including the beer tithe questions. Duteronomy 14 scriptures so avoided by preachers that they helped me find Christian freedom in giving to Jesus.
Christ in Us
Al Sydney says
Peace to you all,
Dear friends we are blessed in Christ who set us free.
If we are truly free in Gods grace we then can discern our lives and the lives of others according to the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit.
For those who insist to keep the law of tithing or tithe 10% of your income,I do not judge you or condemm you.Spiritual growth and lack of revelation knowledge can be the cause.
It is not easy to help good christians understand the truth on tithing, because many self appointed pastors and teachers are deceiving them to give them their hard earned money and call it “advancing the kingdom”
or “putting God first”.
These pastors will fight you or even ask you to leave their churches if you ask them to explain tithing in the new covenant.They have no scriptures to support their beliefs,other than falsely misquote scriptures to finance their selfish agendas.
Dear christians God loves you unconditionaly,that means wether you give Him 10% or 90% of your income does not change His love for you and me.Its based on His Grace only.
Please understand this, God can not be manipulated or influenced like a normal person.
Paul taught us how to give our money to support Gods work through the leading of the Holy Spirit (2Corinthian 8:11-12NLT) Paul clearly says to “GIVE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD”,and verse 12 says “WHATEVER YOU GIVE IS ACCEPTABLE”.Please,if you do not understand those verses then we have nothing in common.
Tithing law that God gave the Jews in the old covenant was compulsory.If you do not obey the law, YOU WILL BE CURSED (Malachi3:8),(Numbers 18:3)
Please see the diffrence between giving UNDER THE LAW and giving UNDER GRACE.
GRACE=(2Corithians 8:11-12NLT) and
LAW=(Malachi 3:8),(Numbers 18:3NKJ)
May Gods Peace and Grace rest on you.
Al Sydney says
Sorry Friends,
The verse I quoted in Malachi was wrong It was suppose to be (Malachi 3:8-9)
sounddoctrine says
Steward
Am I attacking your character by exposing your false teachings?
The bible says that out of the heart speaks the mouth. You are what you teach.
Very well. Let me go back to what I told you before, because it seems that you are not understanding at all and you keep bringing me to the law.
Abraham tithed (10%) of what he earned through the war. Right, there is no law here, no commandment, this is voluntary completely, right?
OK.
Jacob made a vow to also tithe following Abraham’s footsteps which although the bible doesn’t say, he probably learned from Isaac. There is no law here, no commandment, nothing, zilch. Only a voluntary commitment, right? but keep in mind it is voluntary but Just like Abraham and I am sure Isaac it is 10%.
OK
When we study the Bible we realize that Jesus did NOT take away the tithing as we have confirmed in the scriptures (Mat 23:23 KJV). He did remove some other things and changed others.
For God’s people today, we have something that is bigger and better than the old covenant.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(Heb 8:6 KJV)
This covenant is borne out of FAITH. There is no written law, no sacrifices, etc.
However, there are principles, there are commandments, and there are examples.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(1Co 10:11 KJV)
When it comes to how much to give, we have NOT a commandment but an example. Since we are not under the law, we refer back to the father of FAITH. What was the Example? 10%
Of everything you gain. No law, no commandment, no sacrifice, no curse. Etc. So if it is not a requirement then why do it? Because we have an example of someone just like us, who lived as we should not under the Law but by faith who gave 10%. Are we to give 10% yes, only if you have faith. Because..
…for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
(Rom 14:23 KJV)
So then can you give 4% Nope, because the example is 10%. So if you want to tithe then it is 10%, not 5,7, or 3%. Is it required by Law, NO. Is it required by FAITH yes. Whose FAITH? mine and yours not by the preachers faith.
This is not to be confused with your offerings. So what is the tithe for? For the maintenance of the preachers. YES much to your dislike to maintain the preachers. This is why the Apostle Paul said.
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)
Hmmm, sounds like Paul is using the law and comparing the preachers of the Gospel to those Levites, Hmmm…I wonder!
It is the people in the church’s responsibility to maintain the preacher and his family.
Now I hope, that in your next blog you don’t bring me back to the law, because nothing I’ve told you refers to it, except what Paul said.
Jared Brian says
No, you are a false teacher.
No, i am.
No, you are.
It’s unproductive, get the point?
Back to the “issue”.
If you wish to use examples, then look at the truth of the examples you see in scripture.
Example #1: Don’t tithe on all your possessions Hebrews 7:4
As i stated, Abraham gave only from the spoils of war, so if you do the math, he gave less than 10% from ALL he had at the time.
Example/Command 2: Give less than 1% of your increase Numbers 31:9, 27-29
Israel gave less than 1% of their spoils of war.
Example/Command 3: Not everyone has to tithe Leviticus 27:30-32
Most of the Israelites did not tithe on their occupational income.
Example 4: is a NON-example
You do not see any examples of the early Church giving a specific tithe under the New Covenant.
Example 5: we can attach our own requirements before we tithe Genesis 28
Jacob had a set of requirements that he conjured up on his own that he wanted God to meet before he honored his vow.
There is no way you can look at all the sporadic examples of tithing in the Old Testament and assume any kind of formula for the NT. In each example you use to support the requirement of tithing, there is nothing in there that is even remotely consistent. Abraham gave less than 10%, Israel gave 1% from the war spoils, Not all the Israelites tithed on their occupational increase. Here are 3 examples, with 2 out of 3 that are based on commands as well. There is not a single common denominator that you can extract from these examples and commands to enact a general rule today. If we were suppose to mold all these various commands and examples into one, then where did we receive our instructions on doing this?
Freewillgiver says
Soundoctrine and Al thank you for more clarity. I hope you both had much bread and wine like myself, in your communions during the New year celebrations.
Soundoctrine I am sure that you are better informed by debating your position on money tithing in this electronic fellowship than most evangelical preachers in the U.S. However we disagree vastly concerning giving freedoms. Are not all priest in Jesus responcible enough to control the money given to the poor and lost in Jesus name?
Al , Praise Jesus ! You do not teach that Christians must pay fellowships lead by preachers 10% or be in sin. Brother Al please keep teaching against required Christian money tithing as taught in most evangelical denominations.
Soundoctrine seems to support the common doctrines of money tithing taught by most U.S. Evangelical preachers. Sorry Al for misunderstanding your position. In the New Year I pray Jesus will give me more clarity of thought.
Soundoctrine, It seems you believe that Christians must give ten percent of their money to their local churches lead by preachers to support those preachers. Am I clear on this?
Soundoctrine have you ever been a professional preacher paid through money tithes? I once was myself. I am glad you came right out and stated that the ten percent is for support of preachers. Most debating for required money tithes sidesteps this issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Do you believe that all Christians are preist?
Soundoctrine I want to see how liberal your required money tithe beliefs are in comparison to many money tithe or sin teaching denominations. What are your views on Priestly Christian giving freedom?
What about the beer tithe my friend Deuteronomy 14:26 where the people of the Old Testament had some control where their tithes were spent?
Do you believe that Christians must give their 10% cash to a fellowships lead by head preachers? Could Christians give money directly to the poor, missionaries, Christian schools, give money to destitute family members or spend money as Christmas presents in the name of Jesus to unsaved people and that still be a money tithe fulfilling Christian giving requirements?
Under what circumstances is Priestly Christian giving a tithe in your book Soundoctrine? I believe all giving of Christians is holy when it is in the name of Jesus. In many churches the answer is when the giving is in control of the local head preacher that is when it becomes the required 10% money tithe?
Soundoctrine are you more liberal than most money tithe preaching U.S. preachers? Please explain friend when you have time. I think that when All Christians meditate that they are all priest in Jesus , the money that they have can be more creatively given to Jesus.
Christ in US.
sounddoctrine says
I haven’t been able to post due to time limitations.
I am a software engineer.
Steward I need your explanation of the following verses because I don’t understand how you are interpreting them.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
(Heb 7:4 KJV)
^
|
This proves he gave 10% of his gains.
And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
(Num 31:27-28 KJV)
^
|
This was a special levy that God commanded Israel in this particular war because you don’t find it done again in other wars. This is not the tithe.
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Lev 27:30-32 KJV)
What do you mean by this verse that not everyone had to tithe?
Can you tell me steward what does Paul mean by the verses I quoted previously that say
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)
Now, freewillgiver seems to think that we are all priests and indeed we are, however, there were hierarchies within the priesthood. Not all of the priests served at the altar. Paul is using the LAW to say that just like in the law those who served at the altar had a RIGHT to take from the altar so do the preachers today. Can you tell me steward how do you interpret this?
In your opinion how to preachers make their living?
Jared Brian says
sounddoctrine,
There was no command to give 10% of their increase off of anything besides what the land and animals produced. This means that carpenters, bankers, lawyers, blacksmiths etc. . . did not give a cent from their occupational income. If they did not raise any animals, or grow any crops on the side, then they didn’t tithe anything.
The poor did not possess any land or animals, so they were exempt from tithing as well.
Lev 27 is clear that the tithe was on the land and animals. Jesus also confirms this when he condones the pharisees for their tithe of their crops in Matthew 23.
– jared
Freewillgiver says
Sound doctrine thank you so much. I believe the first should be last the greatest leaders in Christ should most resemble the lowliest of servants. To be great learn to be the servant of all. That is how the best preaches in Christ should make a living. “Though he were a son yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered he became the author of our eternal salvation.” Preachers should make a living by suffering the opposite of earthly prosperity. Jesus kind of love = loss of the things of this world. Do you agree? The Levites lived off of food tithes and were mentioned in the same sentence as widows the fatherless and the landless poor. Today many preachers expect 10% of other priest money. Many send their kids to Christian schools and colleges while the people they expect 10% money tithes from cannot afford to send their kids to Christian schools and colleges. Most evangelical missionaries in the U.S. do not collect money tithes.
A Christian leader should not be a comfortable job because it was not in the New Testament in my opinion. Priests are equal but the best priests who give the most those should be the leaders. Many churches met in homes and the leadership of the early church was hard core Spartan individuals. The wealthy opened their homes and their overhead was low because Christian leaders did not expect to be the winners of society. Early church leaders expected hardship and loss. They were not comfortable. I am not against pries giving money to other priest. I am mealy against one priest claiming they are entitled to 10% of priest money. Sound doctrine the priest of the Old Testament could demand their food tithes from the Levites. Preachers should all be missionaries.
The priests were exempt from food tithes. If all Christians are priest then there cannot be a 10% money tithe to other priest called preachers? Every priest can and should give to other priest in need. But what is need? Haiti is in need right now. Priest leaders should be men of suffering like Jesus and Paul. Preachers should all give mostly to the poor.
Make a living? Preachers should mostly get second jobs, save money like missionaries beforehand and expect to live as one of the poorer members of society. Jesus seemed to live very Spartan sleeping outside. All the disciples were persecuted by a cruel Roman government. Make a living? Christ is our life and Christian leaders should expect things to be hardest for them on earth. The first shall be last. Christian leadership is loosing by persecution or giving everything away. Jesus lost, Paul lost so that the gospel was spread. The best missionaries do this everyday. Preachers should expect very little money.
Christian leaders should be storing up the most treasures in heaven, for where your treasure is so is ones heart also. Christian leaders should be the most giving, suffering and the least comfortable. Do you agree sound doctrine? Suffering leaders are the kind that other priest has the least problems giving to because a Jesus kind of leadership will not expect to be entitled to other priest money. Paul writer of most of the New Testament lived in a third world environment with more poverty than Haiti. He went to prisons that would seem like a concentration camp. Paul was a tent maker/evangelist apostle. Paul preached part time. Make a living in the suffering of Christ, I am trying to learn this. Duteronomy 14:26 giving should make the poorest the most happy and priest should have the most control over where to spend their money.
Christ in Us! Thank you Sound doctrine friend.
Tracy says
Two things I’ve noticed over my lifetime about tithing, which I don’t care if you tithe or not. But I’ve noticed, first, whenever there is a money squeeze, such as “do I send my kids to a Christian School or Tithe to my Church” , giving to the church always loses. No one ever asks, should I downgrade my car, my home, my vacations, my golfing, my hobbies, etc, When people are squeezed for time or money, they’ll always lessen or quit giving to the church, if it’s time, they won’t cut out bowling, or golfing or fishing or the football game, it’s church attendance.
2nd – I’ve found 100%, I’m sure this is not true with everyone, but to date, myself personally, I’ve never found anyone who doesn’t like tithing because they want to give more, they don’t like tithing so they can excuse their lack of giving or their stingy giving. If you don’t want to believe in the tithe, you have to, if you’re being honest with New Test. Scripture, believe in generous and sacrificial giving. But I don’t see “anti-tithers” wanting to sell houses or lands and give it to the work of the Lord or like the group Paul mentions, give generously and sacrificially out of their poverty and great need.
When I meet the first anti-tither who doesn’t want to be limited to a mere 10% I’ll have renewed faith in those who “claim” they are New Testament givers.
That’s my thoughts – Tracy
Jared Brian says
Tracy,
People shouldn’t “dis-like” tithing. They should show evidence that the bible is against it.
You place a lot of emphasis on the examples you see in life, but the ironic thing is, there are no examples in the early Church where anyone commanded tithing, or practicing it.
Since tithers believe in offerings above the tithe, why would i be against tithing because of its limits? Ironically, I learned the truth about tithing when i began to study for the purpose of defending it.
– jared
Tracy says
Jared – I think you missed my point.
I find that people who are against tithing, in my experience, are people who aren’t really interested in giving to the work of the Lord in any generous way. They may spend $500 a month on their new car, but justify themselves for only giving $10 a week to any kind of ministry enterprise, because after all they say, tithing isn’t a New Testament doctrine, so I don’t have to give. They generally are interested in disproving tithing to appease their conscience of not being givers.
I’d love to find someone who doesn’t believe in tithing, which is fine with me if a person doesn’t believe in tithing, who still is a generous and sacrificial giver, I’m confident that such people are out there, I just haven’t met any yet.
I do believe the new testament teaches, not demands, but teaches, generous, sacrificial giving and when a person sees that their financial investment in kingdom enterprises are miniscule compared to their lifestyle investments, that is not generous giving and I believe that does violate the spirit of New Testament giving.
Thanks for the reply – Tracy
Jared Brian says
Tracy,
No, i did not miss your point. Your words are all too familiar to me because i had the same thoughts come out of my mind at one point.
Here’s a list of Church leaders and historians who disagree with tithing
David Allan Black, SEBTS
Craig Bloomberg, DENVER SEMINARY
Lewis Sperry Chafer, DTS FOUNDER
David Croteau, LIBERTY UNIV.
Alfred Edersheim, ANGLICAN SCHOLAR
Walter Elwell, EVANG DIC OF BIBLE
Andreas Kostenberger, SEBTS BAPTIST SCHOLAR
C.H. Lenski, LUTHERAN SCHOLAR
Zola Levitt, CHRISTIAN JEWISH SCHOLAR
Martin Luther. LUTHERAN FOUNDER
John MacArthur, MEGA CHURCH PASTOR 53-54
J. Vernon McGee, PRESBYTERIAN SCHOLAR 104
Bruce Metzger, AUTHOR ADN SCHOLAR 223
NELSON’S BIBLE DICTIONARY, P12
John Owne, CALVINIST APOLOGIST
Charles Ryrie, DALLAS SCHOLAR
C.I. Scofield. REFERENCE BIBLE EDITOR
Ray Stedman, MEGA CHURCH PASTOR
Merrill Unger, BIBLE DICTIONARY EDITOR
here’s a link of even more people in history, who have spoken out against, or questioned tithing at some point.
https://www.tithing.com/blog/tithing-opponents-throughout-history/
– jared
Tracy says
Jared,
I will take the blame for not being a good communicator, sorry. Let me start again. I don’t care if a person believes in tithing or not. So, for the sake of this conversation, let us agree that Tithing is NOT a New Testament mandate, requirement or even a suggestion. So, no New Testament doctrine of tithing, we are on the same page now.
I’m saying that those I find who don’t believe in tithing, don’t believe in giving hardly at all. I am saying that I find that those who want to argue against tithing, in my experience don’t want to give. They find 10% to be more giving than they are willing to do.
I’m looking for the person, that I know is out there somewhere who says – I don’t believe tithing is a New Testament doctrine and I didn’t come to that conclusion so I could justify my lack of giving, I came to that conclusion because it’s biblical and while coming to that conclusion and studying the scriptures I did find a New Testament pattern, generous, selfless giving. So, now, I don’t believe in tithing, but when I looked at my tax return last year, I notice that I gave 18% or 25% or 35% of my gross income to charitable causes.
When a person rejects tithing after studying the New Testament, and at the same time does not come to the conclusion that God’s people should be givers and at the end of the year they find that 98% of their income went to taxes and lifestyle and 2% went to charity, I believe they are not walking in the New Testament “spirit” and teachings on the subject of giving.
Bottom line: I’m fine with rejecting tithing, but while doing that let’s not reject giving. The New Testament, the writers who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, have taught us to give generously, even sacrificially in charitable ways.
Thanks – enjoy the dialogue – Tracy
Jared Brian says
Tracy,
There may be many people out there who can afford to give 18-35% of their income. I am not one of them. The average Israelite did not give a single penny towards tithing since it was only required from animals or agriculture. If was a carpenter in the Old Testament, i wouldn’t give a tithe at all.
Here’s my background.
i have 1 full time, and 1 part time job. My wife has 1 full time job. We live in a 1000 sq ft. home. We have 2 cars to drive to work that are both paid off. One, is 14 years old with almost 200,000 miles. The other is almost 10 years old with over 100,000 miles on it. Besides my mortgage and a tiny student loan, i have no debt. I am saving 5% our our salary for our future and for retirement. We are saving about 1% of our salary for our children each year. I have a small 32″ old projector TV with the free tv stations from the antennae. Last year on my tax returns my giving came out to 10%. This year will be much less since i had $4500 in medical bills and an increase of $700/month for daycare so i could work.
Truthfully, what i give to God is none of your business, and i’m extremely hesitant to even say anything about it, but since you are focused on performance, and since our actions is a sign of our faith, i understand why you are so adamant about physical proof.
– jared