- The Holy Spirit is our new teacher, not the Mosaic law (Romans 12:8; Galatians 5:18-25)
- There is no command for the New Covenant Church to tithe (Genesis – Revelation)
- Tithing was used for the temple storehouse & ceremonial system (Nehemiah 10:37; Deuteronomy 12:17,18)
- 10% giving is not an eternal principle nor a character trait of God (Romans 8:32)
- The church is not commanded to follow the ordinances of Abraham and Moses (John 7:21-24)
- A tithe only consisted of agricultural increase (Leviticus 27:30)
- Tithing is not the minimum amount mentioned in scripture (Romans 12:1; Matthew 25:24-28)
- An OT ceremony paralleled the future Church with a freewill offering (Deuteronomy 16:10)
- We have new commands of giving (1 Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 5:18-25)
- I will leave out #10 and see what many of you come up with
Matthew 6
1 Take heed, that ye do not your rightwiseness before men, to be seen of them, else ye shall have no meed at your Father that is in heavens [else ye shall not have meed of your Father which is in heavens].
2 Therefore when thou doest alms, do not thou trumpet before thee, as hypocrites do in synagogues and streets, that they be worshipped of men [a]; soothly I say to you, they have received their meed.
3 But when thou doest alms, know not thy left hand what thy right hand doeth,
4 that thine alms be in huddles, and thy Father that seeth in huddles, shall requite thee [shall yield to thee].
5 And when ye pray, ye shall not be as hypocrites, that love to pray standing in synagogues and [in] corners of streets, to be seen of men [that they be seen of men]; truly I say to you, they have received their meed.
6 But when thou shalt pray, enter into thy bedchamber, and when the door is shut, pray thy Father in huddles, and thy Father that seeth in huddles, shall yield to thee.
7 But in praying do not ye speak much, as heathen men do, for they guess that they be heard in their much speech.
8 Therefore do not ye be made like to them, for your Father knoweth what is need to you [for your Father knoweth what is needful to you], before that ye ask him.
9 And thus ye shall pray,
Matthew 5
17 Do not ye deem, that I came to undo the law, or the prophets; I came not to undo the law, but to fulfill. [b]
18 Forsooth I say to you, till heaven and earth pass, one letter [one i, that is the least letter,] or one tittle shall not pass from the law, till all things be done.
19 Therefore he that breaketh one of these least commandments, and teacheth thus men, shall be called the least in the realm of heavens; but he that doeth, and teacheth, shall be called great in the kingdom of heavens.
20 And I say to you, that but your rightwiseness [shall] be more plenteous than of scribes and of Pharisees [c], ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heavens.
21 Ye have heard that it was said to old men, Thou shalt not slay; and he that slayeth, shall be guilty to the doom [shall be guilty of doom].
22 But I say to you, that each man that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty to doom; and he that saith to his brother, Fie! shall be guilty to the council; but he that saith Fool, shall be guilty to the fire of hell. [But I say to you, that ever-each that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty of doom; forsooth he that shall say to his brother, Raca, that is, a word of scorn, shall be guilty of council; soothly he that shall say, Fool, that is, a word of despising, shall be guilty of the fire of hell.]
Luke 16
13 No servant may serve to two lords; for either he shall hate the one, and love the other; either he shall draw to the one, and despise the other. Ye be not able to serve to God and to riches. [b]
14 But the Pharisees, that were covetous, heard all these things, and they scorned him.
15 And he said to them, Ye it be, that justify you before men; but God hath known your hearts [soothly God knoweth your hearts], for that that is high to men, is abomination before God.
16 The law and the prophets till to John; from that time the realm of God is evangelized [from that time the realm of God is preached], and each man doeth violence into it.
17 Forsooth it is lighter heaven and earth [for] to pass, than that one tittle fall from the law [than one tittle fall of the law].
18 Every man that forsaketh his wife, and weddeth another, doeth lechery [doeth adultery]; and he that weddeth the wife forsaken of the husband, doeth adultery.
19 There was a rich man [Some man was rich], and was clothed in purple, and white silk, and ate every day shiningly.
20 And there was a beggar [And there was some beggar], Lazarus by name, that lay at his gate full of boils,
21 and coveted to be fulfilled of the crumbs [c], that fell down from the rich man’s board, and no man gave to him; but [and] hounds came, and licked his boils.
22 And it was done, that the beggar died, and was borne of angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man was dead also, and was buried in hell.
23 And he raised up his eyes, when he was in torments, and saw Abraham afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried, and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he dip the end of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 And Abraham said to him, Son, have mind, for thou hast received good things in thy life, and Lazarus also evil things; but he is now comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And in all these things a great dark place is stablished betwixt us and you; that they that will from hence pass to you, be not able [d], neither from thence pass over hither.
27 And he said, Then I pray thee, father, that thou send him into the house of my father.
28 For I have five brethren, that he witness to them, lest also they come into this place of torments.
29 And Abraham said to him [And Abraham saith to him], They have Moses and the prophets; hear they them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham, but if any of dead men [shall] go to them, they shall do penance.
31 And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither if any of dead men [shall] rise again, they shall believe to him.
God does not change, the God of the Old testament is the God of the New testament. God does not need our money, he can speak things into creation. so why tithe? Because he is after our hearts. God knows that our wallet reveals where our heart is. If you are trying to figure out why you should have to tithe then you might better check out where your heart is. The reason most people do not want to tithe is that they think their money belongs to them. Its not. All things are his. We are free from the law because we have the holy Spirit. If we are truly transformed, and filled with the Spirit then tithing is no longer a chore, it is something we desire to offer to God
Well said. Giving of tithes is a window to the soul. The most important principle to follow in reguards to the tithe is that we recongnize God is the giver of all we have, the food we eat, the clothes we wear and the air we breath. If someone cannot tithe and does not understand that tithing is a spiritual law and argues vehemently that others too should not tithe, then are robbing Gods childrens of the blessings of heaven.
Is there any others on this blog that, even if they don’t believe that tithing is a law in full force today, believe that it still opens the windows of heaven to those who chose to follow this law? The spirit forces me to say that some of you are more interested in the intelectual thrill of the chase than you are in providing those you teach with avenues to attain blessings. It truely makes me sad to think about this.
Joshua J holdstock, If you are keeping the tithe law,what about the other laws that was given to the Israelites, sabbath, sin offerings cleansing ceremonies and 600 other Mosiac laws.
Is this where we pick and choose which one is better for our bank balances ?
Mathew 23:23 teaches that in the time of Jesus food was still required for tithes. Money was available at the time Jesus was here but the Jews paid their tithes with food. Mathew 21:12-13 declared Jesus additute towards money.
What makes you think we can just change it to money or maybe God changed his mind because we have to deposit the tithe into bank accounts now.
Greed and lust for our neighbours money brought this change and then we twist and misinterbret scriptures to deceive people to part with their money. A LIE COMES FROM THE FATHER OF LIES.
When Jesus was here on earth no one paid their tithes to him. BUT NOW HIS FOLLOWERS ARE TEACHING THAT THEY COLLECT THE TITHES FOR GOD.
In the secular world if you are caught doing this conducting business you might end up in jail.Its called FRAUD, but in church you can deceive people and get away with it because we can argue that its our church doctrine and belief.
Satan IS A THIEF, he does not change.satan wants christians to be cursed and still remain under the law so that the curse of the law will be on them. ( Galatians 3:10-11 )
I ask this, to you who are christians did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law or through faith ?
Evreything we receive from Christ is through FAITH not from keeping the law.
A man shall live by FAITH.
The woman with the issue of blood, was she healed because she was a keeper of the law or was it her FAITH ?Jesus did not comment on how she tithed or kept the sabbath because she was a gentile,he marveled at her FAITH.
All these christians who want you to tithe and keep all the old covenant laws are dragging you into the curse in Galatians 3:10 because non of us can keep the whole law.
THATS WHY JESUS CAME TO SAVE US. Only JESUS CAN FULFILL THE LAW.
You and I CAN NOT KEEP THE WHOLE LAW
Paul taught that the LAW IS NOT OF FAITH Galatians 3:12
Brandon,
Awesome, best thing I read yet…
I stopped tithing after 30 years. There is an error most everyone makes when explaining tithing. It has always been food, eatable items, not money. God never asked for a tithe in the form of money from the Isrealites. He always asked for a food tithe for the Levites and the levites gave a food tithe from their tithe. That is as simple as it gets. You simply cannot just change what God wants as a tithe to money because its convenient to do so. When the first temple was built in Exodus, it was built with offerings, not tithes. Money was also in the OLD TESTAMENT. And everyone (Male) 20 years and older God asked for a money offering. To claim, that isreal was 100 perent argricultural society is a bogus argument made to people who do not know the land, the language and literature fo the Hebrew people. If you want to read how to resign from tithing read this:
http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewshortstory.asp?id=46946
let’s clarify some facts by responding to the ten msunderstood reasons about not to tithe.
1. The Holy Spirit is our new teacher, not the Mosaic law ?
at the first gance of the question the advocator of non-tithe system may have been a triune god believer teachings that the holy spirit was another entity of the Godhead composed of the father, the son and the holy spirit which is UNSCRIPTURAL!
the only location you can find the introduction of the Godhead can be found in John 1:1.
let’s read:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was with God in the beginning.
see! no trace of holy spirit in this introduction.
this teachings of the trinity has been the core of debate that resulted to the mass walk out of its member and set-up of their own.
they only learned that it came from the Pagan Rome of the ancients times before the christians era.
so what is the holy spirit of God in a true sense?
Luke 24:49
I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
it’s undeniably the holy spirit of God.
since when did the tithes became part of the mosaic laws?
Genesis 14:20
And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
to prove the exisence of tithes regardless of the old covenant we have learned that the covenant made through moses was abrogated during the captivity of the northern and southern israel LONG before the coming of jesus. and yet we read in Mathew 23:23 that he taught the jews how to live with tithes through the spiritual gift which is the holy spirit.
see the evidence of the tithing sstem was still in force after the covenant was broken.
Russel lost his argument and can not anymore come up with good reasonings.
2. There is no command for the New Covenant Church to tithe?
how are we sure that there was no command to tithe during and after jesus resurrection?
or shall we reverse the question if there was an annulment of tithes in the christian era?
did jesus really teach the annulment of tithes in the NT times?
during the dispensation times of the apostles they preached the gospels with the first scriptures brought with them, the only material they used in preaching.
was there a command that abrogate the tithes in the FIRST scriptures?
3. Tithing was used for the temple storehouse & ceremonial system (Nehemiah 10:37; Deuteronomy 12:17,18)
4. 10% giving is not an eternal principle nor a character trait of God (Romans 8:32)
5. The church is not commanded to follow the ordinances of Abraham and Moses (John 7:21-24)
to end these doubted beliefs of its existence we must read the hebrew book of Paul about the priest melchizedek in the NT teachings.
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,
2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything.
we can say that the first human being who received the tithes was the Priest Melchizedek and not the levite priest.
who is now the Melchizedek of the NT that authorize the tihing system?
Heb 7
14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.
17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”
it was jesus christ who will assume the Priest in the order of Melchizedek!
therefore the tithes are still in command even after the old covenant system.
6. A tithe only consisted of agricultural increase?
did abraham tithe his increase from the agricultural products?
7. Tithing is not the minimum amount mentioned in scripture (Romans 12:1; Matthew 25:24-28)
Romans 12
Living Sacrifices
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship.
2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
…..2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world..
does that mean the tithes are worldly things?
Num 18
28 In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the LORD’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’
…..the LORD’s portion the best and holiest part of everything!
the best and holiest are the ultimate descriptions being described to the tithes of God.
why the best? because God knows there would be some who will teach that the tithes are done away.
why the holiest? if God is holy, therefore the tithes are even higher than anything else.
what do you mean a perfect living sacrifice to God?
nobody knows what exactly the living sacrifice to God except his HEART!
like i said, tithings, the first harvest and the first ofspring from the old covenant times are the examples of heart’s lust bashing to prevent us from idolatry.
BECAUSE the heart comes the evil feelings that eventualy led you to commit such that sin.
8. An OT ceremony paralleled the future Church with a freewill offering (Deuteronomy 16:10)
i don’t know what you mean by that but the freewill offerings are hand in hand with the tithes and without each of them tithes would be a useless things.
Mal 3
8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’
“In tithes and offerings!
…in tithes and offerings – see the differences of these human doctrines against to God’s.
9. We have new commands of giving (1 Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 5:18-25)
giving is a spiritual element required to the commandment of God.
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
and love is giving!
10. I will leave out #10 and see what many of you come up with.
in numbers 31 where Russel stated that the 10 percent has been compromised wth these fractions 1/500 and 1/50.
we can play these two fractions by turning them to 50/500 to be 1/10 or 500/100 to 10.
but to tell you the truth there are 3 tithes out of these fractions and not a .01 allegedly claim by Russel.
1/500 is 1/10 and 1/50
1/50 and 1/50 are 2/100
but 100 can be made 10 x 10
therefore we have a 1/10 and 1/10 and 1/10 to become 3 tithes.
solution:
675000 x .1 = 67500
67500 x .1 = 6750
6750 x .1 = 675 for the lord!
Loni
Turning phrases that sound good does not make you biblically correct. In fact you are committing unethical exegesis of the scripture.
Abraham commenced it – Gen 14:20
Jacob continued it – Gen 28:22
Malachi commanded it – Mal 3:10
Jesus commended it – Matt 23:23
So let me correct you on the context of each verse you cited. Abraham tithed the spoils of war, which included people. Abraham never tithed any of his personal wealth. Plus, Abraham tithed once in his entire life and he was in his 80s when he first tithed. There is no record to prove he tithed ever again. His tithe before the law was different the the tithe God set up during the Law. To Follow Abraham’s example, then all believers should tithed when they get into their eighties.That’s Abraham’s tithig example, a one time shot. That sounds good to me but I bet no pastor would go for that.
Jacob made a pact with Yehweh that he would only tithe after God Blessed him. We have no scripture showing he performed the act of tithing. Plus using Jacob’s logic, every christian can go to God and say make me wealthy first then I’ll give you a tithe. Every Christian should ask God to make them rich first. Until then they don’t have to tithe until God sends the millions. No preacher would ever teach Jacobs vow format of tithing because they would have to wait until God sends the millions to the members. How come no pastors ever suggest Jocob tithe vow as an option? You should try it and see what your pastor says.
Malachi should be read from Chapter one to see who God is talking to. The command is written to the Jewish high priests and the Levites not to Gentiles in the New Testement.. When you read all the chapters it is clear that God is talking to the priests who are robbing God. Plus the tithe in Malachi is food not money, that’s why God said “that their be meat (Food) in my house. The meat in Hebrew is food not money. If you examine the KJV which says, “You are cursed with a curse”, you have a problem, Your pastor should have told you that words in italic in the scripture mean they were added by the translators to protect the soviegnty of God. When they did this some the scripture text meaning changed. So you must read the verse in context like this without the word “are”. You curse with a curse. When you read the Chapters of Malachi from Chapters 1 thru 3 you will see the priest were cursing God, the levites were cursing god and the people were cursing God. Guess who GOD is coming after first, for changing His word about the contents of the tithe, PASTORS! The tithe requirement is food only, see Leviticus 27: 30-33. God never changed the tithe to money, the catholic church did by using fear to extract money to build Cathedrals. This is well documented in History that they changed the Word of God. The command to tithe was to the Jews only. ALERT, Only Herders and Crop Growers tithed, that is farmers.
Jesus commeded tithing for the Jews only because it was required for them under the TORAH but he was not talking to Gentiles who knew nothing of Jewish Law. Jesus told them that because they were growing crops. Jesus could not tithe because he was not a farmer or a herder. He was a carpenter. If you look the context of Mathew 23:23 he wa rebuking them for their action not commending them in a positive way.
You arguments that Abrahan commenced it – Gen 14:20, Jacob continued it – Gen 28:22, Malachi commanded it – Mal 3:10, and Jesus commended it is out of context, which is isisgesis (private interpretation), and proof-texting which as been the pretext of the false teaching of money tithing since the forth century. You must go back and study to show your self-approved, rightly dividing the word of truth instead of wrongly dividing the Word. A tithe has always been and shall always be a tenth part (of crops, cattle, sheep, oil, wine and grain from the land, not ten percent of gross income called greenbacks. Money is for offerings, food is the biblical tithe. I tithed for 30 years and was never blessed by it. Not I know why. God never asked for money tithe but I should have brought a cow to church as my tithe but since I am not a farmer guess what he requires, an offering of money.
Heres a non biblical thought about tithe….
A church is a group of people who are rallying together with a common goal or cause. We all want to see change come to the community and reach out to help others. Isn’t it only fair for everyone to put in to help that goal or cause – other wise the church cannot possibly run! No money = No food support program, No counceling services, No payment of electricity bills ect.
But isn’t it fair of all people give the same percentage to help that cause? Other wise the pastor might have to make up for the slack with say 50% of his pay. Is that fair? he does so many other things in the church!
I am from a church that promotes tithe. We are a small church, but we have a big vision to see change. Food support programs, counceling services, a community market, a community garden, youth and childrens programs, play groups and even a school…ect. All of these services have costs involved! And our church has invested in properties such as a child care centre in order to bring in extra revenue. However this is not enough to satisfy the bare minimum costs involved. Most of the people running the church do not get full pay for all the days work they do. And our youth leaders & childrens workers are completely volounteer. I am an assistant youth leader. And since we reside in a low socio economic area we commit to ensuring our youth programs are cheap. The only cost we have is $5 which barely covers dinner, and children who cannot afford this come and eat free. Most of the time the leaders end up spending out of their own pockets for game equiptment and snacks. And when we have events, we pay for any children that have never been to youth before to come for free.
Yes our giving should be holy spirit led, agree completely! – but honestly, if you are part of a team working towards the same goal, wouldn;t you want to contribute a fair amount? Isn’t it fairer for people to all chip in the same percentage of their pay, rather than a few people giving say 30%?
Fairness and equality is another issue to consider with money.
I know that every $ i give is being used effectively to help bring change to my comminity. And i dont mind paying for equiptment and children to come to events because i want to see change in their lives! We dont have big flashy equiptment, we try to use the money we get to be effectively used to see change in our community, so really in my opinion, asking for 10% is really nothing when you look at the grand scheme of things! Because what your sowing into is so much bigger.
Lisa,
One of the greatest things about Spirit led giving is the form of checks and balances it brings. Have you heard a statement similar to this, “Whatever God calls, he pays for”? In the same sense we need to keep in mind that if the Holy Spirit is capable of calling ministries to action, He is also capable of calling others to support it.
This is important because false ministries that claim to be led by the Spirit would not be able to impose giving regulations that prohibit others from using spiritual discernment with their giving.
Can you see the problem when i say, “The Holy Spirit is leading me to start this ministry, and now you are biblically required to fund it.”
– jared
Jared,
How does a church pay its normal, routine bills if you propose not to tithe and to give from your heart?
Yawn . .
Oh please…
give me something more challenging to answer.
thousands of charities, missionaries, christian organizations, religions and christian denominations are supported wholly without the demand to give a minimum Of 10% to them. You must have a real lack of faith in the ability in the holy spirit to lead people to give if you dont think God is not powerful enogh to call people to support his ministry. You seriously think that God can call a man to leave his homeand all his goods and go to lead people to christ in the most dangerous part of the world, but he needz help from tithing to get us to give a little cash from our hearts each week. LOL! I guess he is only capable of directing our paths for the big things not the small things.
I’ve been out of work since 10-16-09 because the company I worked for closed down and moved to New Jersey. I would like to know what to give as a tithe to God if you don’t have money to give and if the person isn’t a farmer to give land or livestock?
What we can know now is that most pastors in favor of giving tithes. But most lay intelligent Bible Researchers do not aggree with tithing. The question is Should a Gentile Christian Schould give tithe? All Pastors including Dr. Frank Chase Jr. should look at what you teach in the Church. You are the people who say we are no longer under the law, we are saved by The Blood of Jesus Christ. You are the people talking about the New Covenant and why you introduce the burden of the Law that even Jews were not able to bear. Pls read your Bible again Lev. 27:34, Malakhi 1:1; Acts 15;10.
And what all should do is to go back and see what Apostles were doing or not doing. Did they encourage gentile Christians to give tithes?
Again, we all should look at the Bible Act 15:20 which is a new law for Gentile Christians that all Apostles set a side. It is better to read 15:1-21. Act 15:10 is remarkable.
And, let’s look at who really introduced tithing in the Church again? Were they not Church leacers? Of course they were. What was in their mind? It is clear and simple…
Can’t the Church today help our members find and create jobs etc. so that they may be able to give offerings willingly even more than the amount of what the OT Jews were giving?
Funny thing is Pastors unwilling to do so intead they will say the are spiritual leader. They are not responsible for such material thing and yet they put a heavy burden to their members to bring their tithes, material thing or money. Jesus did both spiritual and material: teaching, healing, and feeding.
Pastors, pls read the Prophet books and you will see God’s warning against Pastors (Shepherds) their corruption, greed and negligence. They (shepherds or pastors) are fat but their sheep are skinny and even scattered without shepherd.
Pastors, just have faith and trust in the Lord. Try to help your members so that they may be blessed. If we truely love your members why whould you worry about other things? They can give their offerings and share their blessings even more than their 1/10 of their income.
God Bless pastors
Well said. Well said.
If you are not tithing you are putting your love of money before him. Tithing is giving back to the lord what is already his, what he has given you. People can only be disobedient and take from God so long before he pulls his hand back, maybe that is why the world is in the state it is in today.
If your not tithing because he claim he can not afford too, he are basically telling God that he can not provide for you needs, that is a lack of faith. Faith and tithing go hand and hand you can not have/do one without the other. The idea for tithing is to give God the FIRST 10%, and he will make the remaining 90% last and go further.
Hi, Ron, Tithing laws can not be changed just because we have accepted Jesus Christ as our saviour. If you read Deuteronomy 14:22-29 it will explain to you what God commanded Moses to do . It is very irresponsible to teach christians and encourage them to give money tithes. Give offerings but please leave tithing laws alone you can not tell God that we have decided to change tithing food to tithing money because our pastors said so.
If we can not change the Levitical priesthood in the old testament in the time of Moses what makes you think we are allowed to change it now. Its dangerous. Read Galatian 5:4
@ Ron:
I don’t see anything wrong with tithing but when Preachers use the Scriptures out of context then that is where the problem comes in. 2 Corinthians 9:7, is the key scripture.
Tithe never dealt with money but rather grain, spices or spoils. Numbers 18:29
Lev. 27:30, 32
Offering was a free will gift to someone based on there need.
Romans 12:13
Romans 15:26
2 Corinthians 9:7
So, my understanding is to give what I have purposed in my heart. And my heart is being ruled by the Holy Spirit. So these thing work in concert with each other. This is also a test of being a true christian. Many profess to be christian but a person with a regenerated heart will give cheerfully and not grudgingly or of necessity. I guess the main point is – is that person a true christian. If so, i think these are the fruits you will see.
Just curious if Ron is keeping the other 612 law, the seven Jewish feast and not just the tithing law? I can only guess if they are lighting candles on the Sabbath and not doing any activity (work or leisure) from Frid. night till Saturday night!
If you break one law you are as guilty as if you have broken them all
James 2:10
If nothing else please be consistent and rational.
Sorry for the repetition but until it sinks in, it seems necessary.
I stumbled on to this website looking to see what other are saying with regards to tithing/offering as the bible does not seem to be clear. Hearing everyones arguments/opinons/facts from the bible, things became clear as mud. But returning to the bible (which we all seem to do), I was reminded that like other areas that are not so cut and dry such as which foods to eat, drinking alcohol, to marry or not to marry and many others. In Romans (Chapter 14) and I Corinthians (Chapter 7 and 8) I’m hearing that it can be good to one and not the other (regarding these areas that are shall we say “grey”) as one may believe it is good/right while another may not. We are told not to despise the one who does and not to judge the one that does not for God has recieved him. We are to let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. We need to do what we do out of faith as we will all have to give account of himself to God We should ensure that we are not creating stumbling blocks for ourselves or others. Keeping in mind that happy is the man that does not condemeth himself in the thing which he alloweth.
To Suzie:
Heb. 8:6 reads:
“But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. ”
Your version of Heb. 8:6 reads quite differently! It doesn’t say everything you wrote. If we quote scripture, we need to quote it correctly, without editing or personal opinion. Personal opinion and insight is fine, just don’t add words that are not part of a scripture to make opinion credible. Some of your points were good.
We all have to be responsible on how we quote scripture, especially with so many new believers trying to learn and understand the bible.
Your version: Hebrews 8:6 said Christ offers a better covenant under better promises and nothing ios said about keeping the sabbath on any particular day or circumcision.
Your personal view with old laws as written in your email may confuse the issue and topic at hand here, to those who are still growing in their walk with Christ. The topic is the tithe.
YOUR OPINION: We are under the New Covenant & Dispensation of Grace not 613 Jewish laws, customs or feast. Thank God or you would be guilty of breaking the law by not keeping the SABBATH FRIDAY NIGHT TILL SAT. NIGHT OR FOR NOT BEING CIRCUMCISED OR EATING PORK OR FOR ANY OF THE OTHER OLD COVENANT LAWS!
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A New Covenant
Hebrew 8:7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.
Lean what Grace and Paid in full means. Here are more Scriptures of interest
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
John 1:16
6And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ
There are several bible versions and this was one but the meaning of it is the same
Please do not accuse me of adding words which is what you have done to justify an Old Covenant law. Stop working and being active on Saturdays (the Sabbath) observe all Jewish feast and rituals including Circumcision of all male babies on the eighth day, then you would at least be consistent!
No one is attacking you. Be at peace. This is a discussion blog, amen?
We all have to be responsible on how we quote scripture, especially with so many new believers trying to learn and understand the bible.
Don’t spin it or twist it, because what you should is what it is.
New Converts can read the bible scriptures I quoted for themselves in all authorized versions and take a guess at what is the truth or not!
I am at peace in my acceptance of the Lord’s unmerited favor !
It is actually called Grace because of the payment Jesus made and not my own!
It is what it is! People trying to be justified by the Law may not even be saved but may have fallen from Grace according to Galatians 5:4
The Holy Spirit in you (if we are saved & born again) is now our guide and teacher. Not outward laws and rituals that were written in stone but not in the heart. Cults are the most moral law-abiding people their are but keeping rituals and outward laws does not justify you before God! Jesus is our justification and has freely given us all things if we are his!
I would like to say to the authors of this website, you have done a very good thing here by bringing this topic to all who will listen to wisdom. This is so controversial and Minstries everywhere are attempting with great effort to keep people blind to the truth, after all, the tithe is their bread and butter.
I simply wanted to commend you for taking on this monolithic task regarding: Is tithing for today.
God bless you and anoint you to endure with great courage with what is about to bombard the Body of Christ!
This is a bible verse the tithe propagandist will never explain
5:4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Matthew 23:23 was before the law Gentiles have been grafted into a New Covenant of Grace period! The definition of Grace is unearned and undeserved favor!
Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
TIthe Propagadist will never find one Scripture that supports law keeping to be in Covenant with God, after Jesus died on the Cross. They need a revelation on the word and meaning of Grace!
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Bible versions King James, New King James, Zondervan, Amplified, New International Version and others that are authorized Christian bible versions. Not the ones cults have changed and added to take away from the Deity of Christ as God in the flesh and Immanuel “God with us”!
I will finally bring these verses up that I have never seen used to this point, except by Russ are Ephesians 2 and Colosians 2.
#5, in the conclusion of this article is what I have stated before.
“5. There is nothing wrong with giving 10% of one’s income to God but an understanding of NT teaching puts that practice into proper perspective. Christians are not obliged to tithe as in the NT the principle of tithing is replaced by the principle of grace giving.”
http://www.cultwatch.com/tithing.html
I would like to paraphrase that into my own words. Giving ten percent or tithing should not be based off of OLD TESTAMENT teaching. It should be a willful act of an individual that has no basis in Jewish Law or Pre-OT Law. If tithing is taught, for whatever reason, it should never be used by a preacher as some sort of guideline to give money. Someone deciding to Give ten percent, should be no different that one who gives 7%. Now how many people do you think go around calculating 7% of their gross or net to give? But as I said before, 10% of what? Why does it have to be money?
Minister Fred Hatchett,
From your post; “Why does it have to be money?” (My response to you) If everyone at one particular church just tithed only their time and talents, then more than likely that church would have to shut the doors since it couldn’t pay the electric bill, or pay the mortgage/rent.
I just find it hard to understand why a Christian would not want to tithe money, or at least give some other amount of money to their church. If a person loves his/her church, trusts the pastoral staff, loves Jesus, and wants to see other new people (non-christians) discover and receive salvation from sin and eternal life, why would anyone argue against a church asking for money? A church should be in the business to be instrumental in helping people finding eternal life and then living life to the fullest. A church should be in the business of putting the biggest dent it can into the kingdom of hell, which is accomplished by increasing the kingdom of Heaven in the greatest way possible. To put that big dent in hell involves money. Aren’t you glad that at least someone at your church tithes or gives offerings?
Why is this even a discussion amongst Christians?
Wow, brothers and sisters. So much debate about tithing, So what if i choose to give 10% or 5% or even 0%. What matters is i do not put my money in front of God. What matters is that God is the center of my life. I think both sides are making great arguements, no doubt. But i must say if we think that we are going to buy God off, we are very disallusioned, and also if we think that all pastors, bishops, or elders are false teachers, again we are disallusioned. It reminds me of when Elijah said he was the only prophet left who had not bowed down to Baal, but God reminded him that he still had several thousand who had not bowed down. I know that God still has a remnant of great men and women who are doing the right thing by him, and we should not do nothing. We absolutely should be good stewards of the things that God has given us, and if God leads to bless a ministry, or outreach, or homeless shelter by all means do so, but do not leave God out of the decision, and by all means do it out of the love of your heart, not the want of your hands. But please verify the fruits of any organization that you are blessing. I choose to give more than 10% to God. (notice i said choose) But my sacrifice (not tithe) does not always go to a building, alot of times it goes to individuals with needs in their lives, i dont think that there is a scripture in the bible that forbids us from helping out our brothers and sisters when they are down on there luck. (if there is i am very sorry) So what if you dont tithe, i still love you, God still loves you. So what if you do tithe, i still love you, God still loves you. It has never been about money with God.
It’s good to hear “you choose to” that’s how it should be. Many Pastor badger their congregation pulling the heartstring of their emotions. I do not believe they all start out with evil intentions. I do believe when the money starts pouring in — somewhere along the line they sucuumb to the seduction of money and their hearts change. They begin to spend money on themselves and lavish lifestyles. Justifying in the way you mentioned, “God is blessing us.” This could not be further from the truth. They asked for the money. They say we need this or that. Outreaches are FREE. Volunteers do the work. Some churches have “open books” to avoid confusion as to where the money goes that is collected. Those that do not have open books, please question the stewardship. Remember, when that property and church building is paid off, there is only one owner and it’s not the congregation. When they take trips to Europe or wherever on a constant basis, their kids go to the best schools, they drive fancy expensive cars, remember that your giving made it all possible. That is not the will of God. How many apostles or disciples lived like alot of these Pastors do? God bless.
Nuevonacida,
Wow, you are so negative man! If you are experiencing all of these things at your church I believe it’s time for you to move on and find a new church home for yourself. My church is great! My church (and my tithes to support it) continue on a weekly basis to put a dent in the kingdom of hell as more people accept Jesus as their savior each and every week. I love my investment in that! I trust my pastor; he drives an old mini-van like I do, and our kids go to the same public school. I pray you find a church that you can trust, and I pray you find peace in these matters that is bringing you so much disturbance. Pray to the Lord and ask him to help you find that right church.
All through the old testiment tithes were given to the priests. aslong as there is a priest then it is required that tithes be given .The priesthood of malchesadac;which was christ in the old testiment;and is still christin the new testiment; as our high priest.As long as we have a high priest;then it is the law of God that we tithe.
Malachi is Old Covenant and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev 27:34; Neh 10:28-29; Mal 3:7; 4:4).
In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food 1000 years after Leviticus 27.
The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law. The rain in Deuteronomy 28:12, 23-24 and Leviticus 26:1-4 is only obtained by obedience to all 600+ commandments. Galatians 3:10 (quoting Deu 27:26) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Trying to earn God’s blessings through tithing only brought curses for failure to keep all of the law. See also Galatians 3:19.
PRIEST-THIEVES: Beginning in 1:6 “you” in Malachi always refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (also 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5): “Even this whole nation of you—priests” (3:9). In 1:13-14 the priests had stolen tithed animals vowed to God. In Nehemiah 13:5-10 priests had stolen the Levites’ portion of the tithe. God’s curses on the priests are ignored by most tithe-teachers (1:14; 2:2 and 3:2-4).
The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included in a correct interpretation of Malachi 3 and they are not. Normally only 2% of the total Levite and priest work force served at the temple one week at a time. Subtract wives, males under the age of 30 and daughters. Therefore 2% did not require all the tithe. See 1 Chron 23-26; see also 28:13, 21; 2 Chron 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5.
While the 3:10 of the Law in Malachi is so important to tithe-teachers they ignore the 3:10 of the Gospel in Galatians and 2nd Corinthians. Perhaps those wanting to enforce the 3:10 Law of Malachi should also enforce the 3:10 Law of Numbers. They share the same context.
Praise God for all the cataracts falling off of the eyes of His people.