As we continue our ‘Tithing on Trial’ series, we will evaluate the most common tithing arguments used to defend its practice. So let’s evaluate another argument used to promote tithing. This argument comes directly from a well-known author on finances from Crown Financial Ministries – Larry Burkett. He has now passed, but we are going to evaluate his argument below taken from his book, “Giving & Tithing.”
While reading through the book, “TIthing & Giving” by Larry Burkett I came across a section that asked, “Is Tithing Legalism”? In the beginning, Larry states, “Although the tithe is mentioned in the law, no punishment was indicated for not tithing. There is a consequence (the loss of blessings), but there is no punishment from God for not tithing.”
What happened when Israel didn’t tithe?
I am not sure where Larry Burkett is getting his information about tithing in the bible, but you have to know that there certainly was a curse on Israel for not tithing. Malachi 3:9 states, “You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed me.”
Malachi 3:11 goes on, “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,“
I don’t think there is any question about the curse for Israel not tithing. We can find further proof in the book of Deuteronomy when God is laying out the laws for Israel. In chapter 26 he outlines the rules for tithing and by chapter 28 beginning in verse 15, God outlines in the next 50 verses the curses and punishments that would come upon them for not obeying his commands that were just laid out.
What Happens When Your Don’t Tithe?
As counterintuitive as it may sound, when we don’t tithe the opposite of what happened to Israel happens to us as Christians. The answer is that when we don’t tithe, we are blessed. Here are five reasons we are blessed for not tithing.
- You are under grace (Romans 6:14)
- God said He would supply all our needs without mentioning the tithe (Philippians 4:19)
- Our gifts are a sweet-smelling sacrifice that is acceptable and pleasing to God (Philippians 4:18)
- God Loves a Cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7)
- The Spirit gives life (Romans 8:5-10)
As Christians, we should have confidence in these new promises under grace and the blessings that come with them. There is a caveat that I want to mention. Even though there are no consequences of not paying tithes, and we receive some inherent benefits and blessings, our greatest blessing comes when we give freely without obligation instead of giving a tithe.
This is not an excuse to give nothing. We should be willing to give from the love of our hearts. God has given us so much that it should compel our hearts to give back as he sacrificially gave to us. This is not an external force compelling us to give. This is an internal force that aligns with our heart’s attitude.
Are We Cursed When We Don’t Tithe?
Even though we receive a blessing for not tithing, some may still be wondering about the curse for not tithing and did it go away. The answer is no, God does not curse us if we don’t tithe. We are no longer under the curse of the law. We are under grace. You are cursed if you do tithe and blessed if you don’t.
If you don’t practice tithing, you are free from the curse, free from the law, and free from tithing. So many feel led to give to someone outside their church but are terrified to do so because of the fear of the curse. It’s not that they don’t like their church or disagree, but in their heart, they have the desire to fill a more urgent need. When people pass up the opportunity to give from their hearts, they invite doubt or even guilt in their hearts, which robs them of their blessing.
The problem with Larry Burkett and others with the same mentality towards tithing are that they know that tithing looks out of place when we attempt to fit it into a Church that is not supposed to be governed by the law. So they modify its appearance a little bit and make tithing more user-friendly than what it was in the Old Testament. The deception is that if we can mix in a little grace by disassociating it from the curse, then the tithe will appear as if it fits right in there with the other principles we practice today. This reformulation of the tithe is nothing but the law dressed up in grace’s clothing.
THE LAW + GRACE + LENIENCY = THE LAW
You Be the Judge
Now that the evidence has been given in this court of law, it is your turn to decide. You be the judge.
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Melchizedek: mentioned to explain I regard Christ as our High priest + mediator between God and us.
10 Commandments: I’ve provided scriptures showing clearly that they existed before given/formalized to Moses at Mt Sinai. Where there is no law, there is no sin: remember?
‘Every day is the Sabbath’: so you and your church folk don’t work any day? Or do you have some other esoteric relevance in that statement?
Cheers!
I totally agree that where there is no law there is no sin. Jesus is the law. He is the end of the old law and the beginning of the new law. Romans 10:4
2 Cor 3:3 “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
What stone tablets do you think they were talking about here?
Paul’s very first letter recorded was to the Galatians. The very argument we are having right now was fully addressed by him in this letter. He rebuked Peter for placing the same requirements on Gentiles that you are recommending.
God no longer operates on stone tablets. He operates on hearts. The Sabbath is a matter of the heart, salvation is a matter of the heart. You cannot perform enough or be sinless enough to gain access to heaven. You can follow the 10 commandments to perfection and still not secure heaven as your eternal home. This is why God manifested a New Covenant and a New Priesthood, with a new mediator and new commandments. The old has passed away and behold, all things have become new.
I am guessing after all of these posts that you may be a Jewish brother or sister, or maybe a Messianic Jew. I honor you and understand why you need to continue to live under the law and I fully respect that. I have several friends that have taken a Nazerite vow for life and I also respect and honor that. I do not however, feel that these self-imposed lifestyles should be placed on the entire body of believers. It is honorable, but not necessary for everyone.
You agree that there can only be sin IF there’s LAW: if law ended, done away, annulled, abolished or replaced. There’s no sin now-right?
How can Christ claim to have delivered us from sin if he did not fulfill the law?
Jared,
Thanks for allowing the blog. It is the only one I have actually enjoyed. I love sharpening swords with other believers. Thanks.
Jared, response to your 11/05/14 comment… [a] *HOW COULD God do away with the law that tells us what His will is?: Rom 2:18, Mt 7:21 + Ps 40:8..[b] * God do away with the very law He commanded to be sealed among His disciples?: Isa 8:16..*God abolish the law that’s not made void, but established by the Christian’s faith?: Rom 3:31..[c] * Do away with a law that is “pure” and “enlightens the eyes?”: Ps 19:8..[d] Abolish a law that He told His people to remember and teach to their childen, grand kids and great grand kids?: Ps 78:1-7..[d] *God abolish a law: Christians should meditate on day and night? [e] *God abolish His law, which must be fulfilled in the life of the Christian who is led by God’s Spirit?..
Dear Anonymous Person,
i did not say, “do away”, nor did i say, “abolish”, neither did i say “destroy” the law.
i deliberately and specifically said “fulfill”
There is a significant difference between ‘fulfill’ and ‘abolish’, ‘destroy’, & ‘done away’.
if i gave you a water bucket. The purpose of the bucket is to hold water. When the bucket has been used and is now full with water, would you say that the bucket has been abolished & destroyed, or would you say that its purpose has been fulfilled? Just because the bucket cannot continue to gather more water does not mean that it has been abolished. The bucket has fulfilled its purpose and cannot be used to gather more water. You need a new & different bucket Matthew 9:17
Dear Jared person! *HOW COULD God abolish His law that the wicked have turned away from + made void [sound familiar?] Ps 19:126,150..*God do away with His law after promising a “woe” upon them that “castaway the law of the Lord, calling evil good + good evil.” How could God abolish a law that enters into the very heart of individuals + condemns the secret sins of their lives: dealable with at judgement?: Ecl 12: 13,14..* Do away with His law that makes folk happy when adhered to Prov 29:18?..* God have abolished His commandments when Christ told His disciples to pray that they could observe Sabbath command 40 years AFTER HIS CRUCIFIXION Mt 24:20..
Anonymous. Once again i said Jesus “FULFILLED” the law
I did NOT say He “Did away” with it
I did NOT say He “Abolished” it
Greetings Jared! Mat 19:17 Jesus told rich guy to keep the 10 Commandments verses 18-19 He briefly recited half the 10. He then quoted another command from Lev 19:18 that summarizes the intent of those Commandments and confirms the validity of the rest of the law. He clearly referred to the law of God, not to restrictions added by certain other religious leaders: Mt 15:1-3..
Mt 5:17-19 “Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be called least [by those] in the kingdom of heaven, whosoever practices/teaches these commands will be called great [by those] in the kingdom of heaven.” How much clearer could that be?!
The word translated ‘fulfill’in this passage means “to make full, to fill to the full”: Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old/New Testament Words. “Fill”: that’s exactly what Jesus did. He explained the spiritual intent behind and perfectly kept the Ten Commandments, completely filling up their meaning. Example: He pointed out that unjustified rage equates with murder vs 21-22 and lust = mental/emotional adultery vs 27-28..
The following NT verses confirm either explicitly or by example that Jesus and His apostles viewed the Ten Commandments as a necessary part of Christian living. 1st Commandment Mt 4:10; 22:37-38…2nd:1 Jn: 5:21; ! Cor 6:9; 10:7,14; Eph 5:5…See Mt 5:33-34; 7:21-23 Lk 11:2; 1 Tim 6:1, Lk 4:16 Acts 13:14,42,44;16:13; 17:2; 18:4 Heb 4:4 +9.. Then there’s Mt 15:3-6; 19:17-19 + Eph 6:2-3, followed by Mt 5:21-22; 19:17-18; Rom 13:9, Gal 5: 19-21; Jam 2:10-12. Mt5:27-28; 19:17-18; Rom13:9; 1 Cor6:9; 10:8 Eph 5:5; Gal 5:19-21; jam 3:10-12..Ditto:Mt 19:17-18; Rom 13:9; Col 3:9; Eph 4:25 + 10th Commandment: Lk 12:15; Rom 7:7; 13:9; Eph 5:3 +5…If we love God we’ll keep His 10 Commandments, 1st 4 show love of and to God, other 6: love of neighbor. Sabbath, 4th is one of those showing love of God. Folk claiming to observe His Royal Laws, use [my translation] semantics eg “Every day is holy to us” or “We observe Sabbath daily” there’s variations on these two most common statements. Bible clearly states how the Sabbath is 7th NOT every week day + how [not Pharisee like] to observe it.
“Fulfilled” doesn’t mean ‘done away, ‘abolished’ or ‘ended’ as I’ve contended above…Semantics is also [by some] applied to that even and often goes thus: “I know 10 Commandments weren’t abolished, they didn’t end; Christ fulfilled them, so I don’t need to observe them” and myriad variations thereof… However God’s Word-Bible says different and remember: without sin there’s no law. “Commandments” still remain in Revelation: mentioned specifically and breakers described as outside God’s kingdom……Jarod, I enjoy your website and your democratic approach to allowing we, me included ‘voice’ our opinions-taa!
Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly and then he ended it. Romans 10:4. He was Jewish. I am not Jewish. Jesus is my law. The Holy Spirit is my constant reminder. I know I should not steal, the same way I know I should honor my (Temple)body by not smoking and eating right. The same way I know when to help someone in need, not watch pornography, work hard at my profession, pay my taxes. Many of these things and hundreds more are not “Commandments”, but I live by them and walk justified and righteous. If everyone on earth simply followed the 10 commandments, we would still be in big trouble. That is precisely why there is now a NEW COVENANT. Followers of Judaism who reject Jesus and all non-believers (those who also reject Jesus) continue to live under the curse of the law. If you reject this, then you reject everything Paul taught in 2 Corinthians, Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews. Pauline Theology is very clear that Gentiles gain zero justification whatsoever from the law and all justification, righteousness and right standing from Jesus, not guided by stone tablets, but by The Holy Spirit. Again, if you are Jewish, then you will need to gain your justification from the 10 commandments as well as all of the other laws. If you miss one, you missed them all. Every time you sin, your salvation will be reversed. Simple repentance won’t work for you either. You’ll need to atone by the blood of animals. Tough way to live, knowing there is a better way.
Is give and it will be given to you a law ?
So although the law: 10 commandments annulled + without law there is no sin. TODAY we have no sin?!BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE: we do have/experience + are subject to sin! Its the state of our realty!
Paul: “We establish the law” Rom. 3:31.
Answering your first response: I looked through the blogs. I don’t think anyone used the word “Annulled”. Annulled is not in the bible. Fulfilled (many scriptures), ended (Romans 10:4), obsolete (Heb 8:13) is in the bible.
Romans 3:31 cannot be extracted out of its context. Read everything before this verse and then keep reading. Paul is talking about the LAW OF FAITH. He goes on to prove that Abraham’s righteousness was not from the law, but from faith.
He met the requirements of the law when there was no written law. He did this by faith and walking with God. He tithed from his heart before there was a law to tithe. How did he know to do this? How do we know when to pray for someone? How do we know when to hand someone money at Walmart, not having any idea that they are in need? How do we know in our heart that something is wrong, even when it is perfectly permissible under the law? Holy Spirit. If we refuse or turn from things the Holy Spirit asks us to do, are we not in sin, even though none of these things are addressed in the 10 comandments?
This is why the law is called “Obsolete” in the bible. The Holy Spirit work within us now, holding us to a much higher standard. Those without the Holy Spirit, ie. non-believers, are still subject to the law.
The old covenant law exists and will exist forever. It is extremely important because it points to a new covenant and better way, but there is no longer any power in the law to justify a Christian before God. Like Abraham, we are justified and made righteous by our faith. We know right from wrong by The Holy Spirit.
SO! Without knowing about tithing , he tithed ten percent?
maybe this will help http://nazarenespace.com/profiles/blogs/tithing-amp-slave-wives-in
Rom.10:4 Greek word telos, translated ‘end’ can mean variations in meaning, including “the aim or purpose” of a thing”:Vine’s Complete Expository Dict, of Old/New Testament Words…This is very clear in NKJV rendering of 1 Tim.1:5 telos properly translated as purpose in the clause “the purpose of the commandment is love.” Same verse: NRSV, telos translated as “aim” + the NIV as “goal.”…Paul uses telos in Rom 10:4 to convey that the object/goal of the law is to point us to the mind + character of Jesus Christ: Gal4:19 + Phillipians 2:5. Christ, the living Word of God, is a perfect replica of what God’s law teaches. Pointing us to His character + work is the “aim” of the law. Rendering telos as “end” in Rom 10:4 distorts Pauls’s intended meaning, which he warns us 2 against Ptr3:15-16…Its enemies/enemy of God that chooses to change/abolish His law:Dan. 7:25 + Dan 7:1-8…God promises to hear prayers of those keeping His commandments…Jesus kept God’s commandments: we’re told to walk as He walked 1 Jn 2:6…John said folk claiming to know God + not keep His commandments are liars…Jesus: “Whoever shall beak one of these least commandments + shall teach men so , shall be called the least in the kingdom”: Mt 5:17-20…Why/how would God who is unchangeable do away with His law that is also unchangeable? Mal 5:6, Heb 13:8, Mt 5:17-19 + Ps 117:7-8.
Yeah, now perform the same exegetical study you did on a single verse to the entire book of Romans, Galatians and Hebrews. Then you will be free.
According to you ‘commandments’ doesn’t mean 10 commandments, when it suits your translation in Revelation for example; I believe the 10 c’s are referred to. Breaking of three specifically mentioned there as barring folk from God’s kingdom.
Appears you’re seeing me as a letter of the law Christian; I understand that Christ didn’t do away, abolish or end His 10 commandments which He created, Sabbath included and gave to mankind.
In human form on earth, Christ magnified His 10 commandments Sabbath included. Ergo to even think about breaking any of them is sin! Those laws remain today: as you agreed “Without law, there is no sin.” Sin is transgression of the law and that’s immutable.
Your view is word for word, Jehovah Witness in content; not saying you are, mean your stance.
Here’s more questions from Bible. [1] *Why would a perfect God do away with a perfect? law Mt. 5:48 + Ps 19:7..[2] * A Holy God do away with a Holy law ? Is 6:3, Rom 7:12. [3] * A righteous God do away with righteous law ? Ps 145:17 Ps 119:172. [4] * A God of truth abolish a law of truth? Jn 14:6 Ps 119: 142, 151. [5] * A God who is just abolish a just law? Acts 3:14, Deut 32:4 Rom 17:12. [6] * A God who is good abolish a law that is good? Ps 34:8, Rom 7:12. [7] *Do away with a law that tells what sin is? 1 Jn 3:4, Rom 4:15 + Rom 7:7. [8] * Do away with the very law that Christ came to magnify and make honorable? Isa 42:21….The Sabbath, 4th of the 10 was created, sanctified and blessed by God, long before He gave 10 commandments to Moses. Submitted evidence here previously, that commandments were being broken and punishment exacted. FOR SIN, prior to Moses/Sinai; sin is transgression of the law…The stance [yours] and JW ethos that commandments they obey don’t include the ’10’ is semantics and allows them to avoid test commandment: Sabbath. This approach [as yours] always prompts [paraphrased] “We regard every day as Sabbath or every day is Holy to us.” As you and they doubtless know: work on Holy days is breaking the commandments of God IF we translate His scriptures correctly…Vale.
does anyone have a good understanding of hebrews , specifically
from 5:1 to 10:16 , it seems to hold the key to the whole is tithing under the law pre levitical or other wise (the law of sin and death)
I do not fully understand it yet , 5 starts with describing Jesus in his pre resurrected person ,still in the loins of the father
as melchizedek , goes on to describe , Abraham being blessed after giving him a “tithe of all” then how the levitical priesthood
was limited , and that Jesus has become the new high priest
they seem to be central chapters in whether tithing was under law
or an eternal principle , looked at it a lot recently and still
wouldn’t say I understand it , is there anyone out ther who does ?
I completely understand everything in the bible (sarcasm)
Melchizedek was/is a priesthood that passes not from one to another; an eternal priesthood, obviously Christ is Melchizedek. Abraham CHOSE to tithe to Him. Some churches teach that Abraham and others already knew about tithing [1 tenth], which is why he CHOSE to so do. These churches also teach that THEIR ministers are of the Melchizedek order/ministry. They preach that therefore tithes should be paid to their HO/ ministry/hierarchy; because THEY represent
Christ on earth. They debate that point about Melchizedek NOT being transferable. How they manoeuvre about that Bible scripture reality: interesting!
Jared person. Let’s know your reaction, education and reasons why Bible scriptures supplied are wrong asap!
Anonymous,
I think context is important when understanding scripture. Jesus was Jewish. The “rich guy” you refer to in the book of Matthew was also Jewish. Jesus was speaking to him within the context of Judaism. Jewish people during Jesus’s ministry were not born again and the New Covenant had not been established. Gentiles who did not convert to pure Judaism were not even part of the conversation yet.
Christ was the end goal of Mosaic Law (Romans 10-4). Pauls opponents were often guilty of failing to see that the law covenant had come to an end. They were trying to make the law do something it was never intended to do; provide inheritance, righteousness, life or salvation (Galatians 2:21, 3:18-21)
The law never effected hearts, only behavior. God wants hearts. The New Testament makes no distinctions whatsoever about which parts of the law are binding and which are optional. The law is a single entity, all of it. There is really no such thing as moral, civil, or ceremonial law as many attempt to break down to make it easier. It is ALL binding. Matthew 23:23 states that some are weightier than others, but they are all BINDING.
Paul declares that Christians (Not Jews) are not under the law because they have died to it (Romans 7:4-6) In fact Paul states that he sometimes became like a person under the law when with Jews and a person not under the law when with gentiles. (1 Cor 9) Why would he EVER act like a person not under the law if it was not permissible to live NOT under the law. Remember, the law is one entity, period.
None of this means that a Christian should disregard the 10 commandments and sin, sin, sin. The 10 commandments, like hundreds of other laws in scripture, create a plumb line for behavior.
This is the message of the cross. We have all fallen short, and always will. Romans 10:4 works like this: Jesus, fulfilled the law as a Jew, completed the requirements of an old covenant agreement with mankind, and provided a new covenant agreement with those who believe (in Him). Those that do not believe in Him cannot be provided His righteousness and cannot enjoy the grace, mercy, righteousness and salvation offered in this new covenant. There is not a third covenant, so all mankind must be under one or the other. Paul makes it very clear that the new covenant is in no way a continuation of the old, an improved version of the old, or a refurbished version of the old. It is entirely new, with a new priesthood.
Christians worship on Sunday and not Saturday because of the centrality of Christ. Christ rose on the first day of the week (Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, 1 Cor 16:2, Acts 20:7, Rev 1:10) Corporate worship is recalibrated around the resurrection of Christ. Is this “keeping ” the law? Are Christians “in sin” because they worship on Sunday and not Friday night through Saturday? What if we also add Wednesday and Thursday? Maybe a bible study Friday night. That would be breaking the law of Moses. This is why God had Paul add Romans 10:4.
This is why Christians do not need to tithe. They simply need to give.
‘Context’..I now regard tithing as a principle of giving; if others choose to apply 1/10 rule-their business…
Christ said the Sabbath was made “For man, not man for the Sabbath”: “man” therein means humans, NOT one race ie Jews.
10 Commandments: “Circumcision is nothing + uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is everything” Paul: 1 Cor 7:19 NRSV: “obeying the commandments of God is everything.”….”So, then with the mind I myself serve the law of God” Paul :Rom 7:25….God’s law was written in Paul’s mind/heart, just as it is to be in ours: Heb 10:16….”the law is holy, the commandment holy, just + good” Paul Rom 7:12….”I delight in the law of God in my inmost self v22 NRSV calls it “spiritual” law v14….those “obeying God’s law declared righteous: Rom 2:13….Paul plainly stated he’d continued using the Old Testament Scriptures as the authority for his beliefs:Acts 24:14….John: “sin is transgression of the law” 1 Jn 3:4 + saints are those “keeping the commandments of God + the Faith of Jesus”: Rev 14:12 + “He who says he knows Him + doesn’t keep His commandments, is a liar + the truth isn’t in him”: 1Jn 2:4….Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, + may enter through the gates into the city”: Rev 22:14….Jesus: ” If you keep MY commandments, you’ll abide in My love, just as I’ve kept My Father’s commandments + abide in His love”: Jn 15:10 + “If you want to enter into life, KEEP the commandments: Mt 30: 15-19….The viewpoint that 10 commandments apply only to the Jews is incorrect; obviously so many relevant verses + there’s many more: are not Jew specific….
‘Context.’ [1] Sabbath as a required weekly observance: please show me/us where in the BIBLE, God, Christ or the apostles either [a] Changed it to Sunday the 8th day [b] Annulled, wiped/deleted it from His requirement as an observance? I mean actually instructed us to not observe Sabbath day weekly. He certainly COMMANDED we observe it! Not just the opinion/supposition of many religionists that because He [supposedly] *rose on Sunday; that’s somehow a command to observe Sunday as Sabbath replacement. Christ rose pm *SATURDAY: Tuesday He ate early evening Passover meal with disciples at the beginning of Nisan 14, [Jewish reckoning] + instituted the New Covenant symbols Mt 26: 26-28,He was then arrested, brought THAT night before the high priest…Wednesday: Jesus was crucified, dying around 3pm Mt 27: 46-50. THAT Wednesday was the PREPARATION day for the ANNUAL, NOT weekly Sabbath + began that [Weds] evening Mk 15:42 Lk 23:54 + Jn 19:31. Jesus’ body placed in tomb at twilight Mt 27: 57-60…Thursday: this was the high day Sabbath, 1st day of Unleavened Bread Jn 19:31 + Lev 23:4-7. Described as the day after the Day of Preparation Mt 27:62…Friday: high [annual] day Sabbath now past; women brought prepared spices to anoint Jesus’ body before they rested on weekly Sabbath, which began at sunset Mk16:1 + Lk 23:56…Saturday: The women rested according to 4th [still observing Sabbath, post Christ’s death] Commandment Lk 23:56 + Ex 20:8-11. Jesus rose around sunset EXACTLY 3 days + nights after burial; fulfilling the sign of Jonah + authenticating Jesus’ Messiahship…Sunday: Women brought prepared spices early am-still dark, Lk 24:1, Jn 20:1. Jesus had ALREADY RISEN Mt 28:1-6; Mk 16:2-6; Lk 24:2-3 + Jn 20:1. He didn’t rise on Sunday but at sunset THE DAY BEFORE… Don’t assume, [makes an ass out of you and me]; that Sabbath keepers don’t Bible study on most or every other weekly day. Why on earth, do you believe, a Bible study on the Sabbath is sin? “Worship” true: can/does include prayer/ hymns/ Bible study and I believe Sabbath observance. However you’ve diverged away from my contention that Sabbath + 10 commandments are required of us by God today…You ask me to judge Christians eg “Are Christians in sin because they worship on Sundays?” Not for me to judge; am well aware that I/you/we ALL sin, Sabbath keepers included!…This evolving discussion: This website/blog, isn’t, in my opinion, about judging others. Seems to me: debate is [has been] about whether or not God requires us to keep His 10 Commandments, 4th included. That’s how I’d prefer to continue it, if ok? However for the record and as a disclaimer, note. My long life has included working with + social/religious interaction with Sabbath + Sunday observers/worshipers, including a religion which still has the ‘every day is a Sabbath’ ethos + one that says there’s no Sabbath, Sunday or any day. In each + every church concerned I met some friendly, loving,caring and sincere folk. There were also those that outside of their respective church services, I’d choose to avoid! Sabbath keepers included; certainly and most likely, those latter folk may/could hold the same opinion of me! Observing the Sabbath + other 9 Commandments doesn’t make one perfect; I’m living proof of that!…Will reply to rest of your input, prior to your “Christians worship” paragraph later as time is on the wing!…’Later.’
Jared, why is my input: resurrection day of Christ registering to me as input-your blogsite, yet is NOT there for perusal?
i do not understand what you are asking
Its ok: my text was slooow appearing + I wondered what was occurring.
Jesus kept the Sabbath. He kept all the Jewish laws, because he was born under the law and kept it perfectly (Gal. 4:4; Heb. 4:15). He killed Passover lambs, tithed to the Levites, told cleansed people to make offerings commanded by Moses (Matt. 8:4), and he observed Hanukkah (John 10:22). He would have worn blue threads on his garments (Num. 15:38) and done a lot of other things that Christians aren’t required to imitate. When we look at the example he set, we must remember the historical context.
What kind of example did Jesus set on the Sabbath? The Bible never says that he rested. In Fact, we are told only of his activity. He never commands anyone to keep the Sabbath, nor praises anyone for it. Rather, he constantly criticized people who had rules about what could or could not be done on the Sabbath. He always taught more freedom, never any restrictions. Although he told people to be very strict about some laws (Matt. 5:21, 28, etc.), he was always liberal about the Sabbath.
Jesus always compared the Sabbath to ceremonial laws, not to moral laws. When his disciples were picking grain, he used the example of the showbread, and the work of the priests in the temple (Matt. 12:3-6). Those rituals were just as important as the Sabbath. He said that circumcision could be done on the Sabbath (John 7:22), which indicates that circumcision is a more important law than the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a ritual law—it says that behavior that is perfectly good one day, is forbidden on another, simply because the earth has rotated. But true morality does not change from one day of the week to another.
When ritual laws became obsolete when Jesus died, it should be no surprise that the ritual of the Sabbath also became obsolete.
Jesus said that daily chores could be done on the Sabbath (Luke 13:15). Even hard labor could be done in an emergency (Luke 14:5). He told a healed man to carry his sleeping mat, even though there was no hurry (John 5:8). He even used the word “work” to describe his activity (v. 17). Many Christians follow this example. They remember that Jesus consistently criticized the Sabbath rules of the Pharisees, and that he treated it as a ritual law.
Should Christians keep the seventh-day Sabbath? Is the command clear enough to require people to lose their jobs and alienate their families? No—the only place that the Sabbath is commanded is in a covenant that the New Testament calls obsolete. True, the New Testament does not explicitly say that the Sabbath is obsolete. Instead, it says much more—that the ENTIRE old covenant is obsolete. It says that Christians do not have to keep the law of Moses. It says a large category of law is no longer required, and it never tells Christians to keep the Sabbath. None of the Sabbatarian arguments proves that the Sabbath is still commanded.
If the Sabbath were required, it is surprising that the New Testament never repeats the command. It has space for all sorts of other commands, from holy kisses to avoiding idolatry, but it never commands the Sabbath. It never criticizes anyone for breaking it. Paul dealt with numerous problems of Christian living, but he never tells slaves or others how to keep the Sabbath. He lists numerous sins that can keep a person out of the kingdom of God, but he never mentions the Sabbath. If the Sabbath is important, the silence of the New Testament is absolutely astounding.
But the evidence against the Sabbath goes even further than this. The New Testament not only fails to command the Sabbath—it says that it is wrong to require it.
In Romans 14, Paul writes that some Christians consider “one day more sacred than another,” whereas other Christians consider “every day alike.” In the Roman church, partly composed of Jews and partly composed of Gentiles, it is obvious what kind of days might be considered sacred.
But Paul says, “Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” In other words, he is saying that it is permissible for a Christian to think that every day is alike! He did not feel any need to explain that one day of the week should be considered different. He was quite content for Christians to consider them all the same. His concern here, as it was in Colossians, was that Christians should not judge one another about their different customs (v. 4).
Paul was indifferent about the question of days—and the only reason that he could be indifferent about it, was that he considered the Sabbath command to be obsolete. If Christians work on the Sabbath, we are not to judge them or call them wrong, because they are not wrong. The Sabbath command does not apply.
First-century Jews did not think that the Sabbath applied to Gentiles, anyway. Paul would have had an uphill battle if he had wanted to teach otherwise. The reason that Paul could be so indifferent about days, that he could tell people not to judge one another about them, is that they were not commanded.
Jason C. Meyer.
Paul, 25 years POST Christ’s death: read Rom 7:12, 2:13 7:22 + then Rom 3:31 “Do we then make void [Greek katargeo, meaning ‘destroy’ or ‘abolish’] the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish [Greek histemi,:’erect’ or ‘make to stand’] the law.” Faith didn’t abolish the law, Paul said; it establishes + upholds it….Gal 4:9-10: Galatian churches were composed of mostly gentile background: Paul made that clear Gal 5:; 6:12,13; they couldn’t have been Jewish….So the gentiles couldn’t have “turned back” to what they weren’t keeping! Its drawing a long bow: saying the gentile Galatians were turning back to the Sabbath + other Biblical festivals, since they couldn’t turn back to that which they hadn’t previously observed. Gal 4:8 “When you didn’t know God, you served those which by nature aren’t Gods.” Paul clearly “referred to the idols of paganism, which, in typical Jewish idiom. Paul termed ‘not gods’:J.M. Boice The Expositor’s Bible vol 1, p475. Gal4:9 “elements” here from Greek word stoicheia same word translated “elements” in v3. There Paul described his readers as having been in “bondage under the elements of the world.” For this to refer to God’s law in v9, it’d also have to refer to His law in v3: SAME word is used. Verse 3 Doesn’t apply to Biblical law….Vale-again.
J.C. Meyer..{1] As a Sabbath keeper: I’ve NEVER lost a job due to that belief, still work in old age. [2] ” Family alienation ” can/ does occur towards Mormons, Pentecostals, Buddhists and from RC religionists towards Protestant family members. Its human nature: lack of it towards a certain church family member doesn’t mean that person is correct in their religious belief. Most religious discrimination I’ve received, over the years has come from [a] Sunday observing Christians [b] Family members holding no belief in God at all! For what that’s worth; or whatever you deduce from it?… It was after all, the day Christ was resurrected on! Latter point often used by pro Sunday as Sabbath replacement point: preachers.
Sabbath: “Then Paul,as his custom was, went in to them + for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the [OT] scriptures.” [Which included the Torah/Law + prophets]: Acts 17:2….”And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews + Greeks” : Acts 18:4….Wholesale rejection of the God created Sabbath as Christian worship day, started nearly 300 years AFTER Christ’s earthly ministry….Sunday substitution for Sabbath took hold largely/ mostly through political decision by Roman Emperor Constantine: legalized Christianity to secure political advantage over a defeated contender for office emperor.He swiftly grasped the political advantage of accepting/ supporting Christians; acceptance price: state control over all religious matters….A.D. 321 Constantine, NOT GOD, declared Sunday, long the day consecrated in honor of pagan sun god. To become official weekly rest day in Roman Empire: making it day of choice for church assemblies. Nowhere does God/ Christ/ apostles change Sabbath to Sunday. First century apostles didn’t change it. No human or institution/ state has had ever the right to tamper with what God set apart as holy.
Interesting that you say “Jesus never rested”, having previously said, He being Jewish lived as did they; previously you’ve said Jews kept Sabbath: believe your error there is self evident…Time, is again “On the wing.” Will return, God willing, another day: reply to main remaining points- your text…Vale.
J.C. Meyer. Jesus certainly did criticize the Pharisees for their wrong attitudes and adding their rules to God’s law! Jesus showed through word and deed : correct attitude and practice towards Sabbath and other Christian requirements. He showed them/us that the Sabbath was made for “man” NOT just the Jews alone; told them/ us how to keep Sabbath. You correctly point out that the Pharisees kept the Sabbath contrary to the way Christ/ Christians kept it. Christ nowhere tell us the Sabbath was eliminated or changed to Sunday….God “made” the Sabbath: hallowed, blessed and sanctified it; nowhere does His Word the Bible tell us its done away!….The Sabbath commandment isn’t repeated in the NT, simply because those to whom Christ/apostles preached wouldn’t have imagined it needed to be repeated. Their Bible was what we now call Old Testament : their guide for living Rom 15:4. Paul described them as being “given by God’s inspiration, profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work 2 Tim 3:16-17. The holy Scriptures commanded them to observe Sabbath; the common folk accepted that as God’s required instruction…You’re correct: Jesus and His apostles lived/taught in a Sabbatarian society. Jesus’ confrontations with Pharisees were over HOW to observe Sabbath, never over whether to observe it…Apostles took God’s message beyond confines of Judea, Sabbath observance was well known: other parts of the Roman empire. Jewish historian Josephus, time of New Testament Church: :The multitude of mankind have had a great indication for a long time to follow our religious observances; there isn’t any Greacian city, nor any Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting, 7th day hasn’t come. As God pervades all the world, our law has passed through all the world also” : Against Apion, 2,40.Jesus and apostles examples confirm they believed/ obeyed all of 10 Commandments. Acts, written by gentile Luke: Sabbath/ annual Sabbaths described Lev 23 are mentioned routinely Acts 13:14, 42, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4, 21; 20:6, 16; 27:9. Whether to observe them simply wasn’t a question…Rom14: 5-6 Note the Sabbath/ Sabbath keeping is NOWHERE mentioned here! Reference here is simply to “days” not the Sabbath or any other days of rest/ worship commanded by God…Earlier Paul said “The law is holy and the commandment holy, just and good” Rom 7:12; The doers of the law will be justified” : Rom 2:13 + “I delight in the law of God” Rom 7:22. If Paul said Sabbath observance is irrelevant, such an assertion would be inconsistent with his other statements: same letter…Paul wrote to a mixed church of Jewish/ gentile believers in Rome. In verses 2 +3 Paul discussed vegetarianism also v6…”Days” in verses 5 + 6, immediately between references to eating meat/ vegetarianism in verses 2, 3 + 6. There’s no BIBLE connection between Sabbath observance and vegetarianism, these verse have to be taken out of context to assume Paul referred to Sabbath…”The close contextual association with eating suggests Paul has in mind a special day set apart for observance: feasting or as time of fasting” :E. F. Harrison, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary, Vol, 10 p, 146. Paul was discussing Roman or other special days which feasting, fasting or abstaining from certain foods was practiced…Some congregational members there were eating meat, others were abstaining from meat eating. Vegetarians were likely members who “feared lest they [without knowing it] eat meat offered to idols, or was otherwise ceremoniously unclean [might easily happen in such a place as Rome] that they abstained from meat totally” W.J. Conybeare and J.S. Howson, The Life and Epistles of St. Paul… Vale temporarily.
The Jesus arose on Sabbath evening seems to have disappeared from heron?
Well- since then there’s been no further input till yours.
1st Time I’ve noticed any new input here.
I’m THAT “Sabbath” ‘Anonymous.’