It’s been a while since our last post but i want to continue our ‘Tithing on Trial’ series, we will evaluate the most common tithing arguments used to defend its practice.
The main argument is that because the New Testament does not tell us to stop tithing, this means that God wants us to continue tithing. This is one of the most immature excuses used to require tithing. Have you ever done something stupid when you were a child and then make the excuse to your parents, “You didn’t tell me not to do it”? How did that work for an excuse to get you out of trouble? Well, this excuse doesn’t work for tithing either. Just because there is no verse that states, “Thou shalt stop tithing” does not issue a license to continue it’s practice. The New Testament (NT) wasn’t written because God needed to explain how to reverse all the Old Testament (OT) laws one by one.
The NT Wasn’t Written to Reverse the OT
There are 613 laws and commandments listed in the Torah. Do you think the New Testament should go through each of these and pick and choose which ones are applicable?
Let’s use circumcision as an example. Most of us commonly agree that circumcision is no longer required in the New Testament and we agree so easily because circumcision was clearly repealed in the New Testament. The bible is pretty cut and dry and plain as day on the issue; but what about addressing all the other laws? It’s unnecessary to address the other laws and in reality it was unnecessary to address circumcision either. You have to ask yourself, “What is the real reason why we don’t require circumcision?” If there was no verse that clearly repealed circumcision as a requirement would you still practice it? The answer would be, “No”, many of us would still not require circumcision. And the reason is that we don’t really base our doctrine on what Paul/Peter/Jesus didn’t say, we base it on what Jesus did.
Jesus’ act on the cross and the fulfillment of the laws is why we don’t practice circumcision. Even if there wasn’t a single word uttered about circumcision in the New Testament, we should be able to deduct that circumcision is not a New Testament practice. I think most of us can make that logical connection with circumcision, but why can’t we do the same with a mechanical, calculated practice called tithing? All of a sudden the actions of Christ on the cross is voided because we don’t have solid concrete proof slapping us in the face telling us to “QUIT TITHING!”
I’m not trying to throw out scripture, but the truth of the matter is that there were 613 Old Testament laws listed in the Old Testament while many of them were not addressed again in the New Testament. So you can whine about my effort to discount the lack of scripture; but it’s just hypocrisy unless you actually obey many of the 613 laws that were not addressed in the NT.
My argument here is based on the fact that the law is clearly repealed and that tithing is part of the law. Why should i find a verse that specifically ends tithing, when I can find plenty of proof that tithing is in fact part of the law? There are Old Testament laws that are specifically mentioned and ended in the New Testament, so it is through these examples we can determine the principles we should apply to all the laws in scripture.
Other Old Testament Laws that Were Not Repealed in the New Testament
- Deuteronomy 23:2 – Don’t let illegitimate children in the Assembly of God
- Deuteronomy 25:5-10 – If your brother dies, you have to marry his wife so she can have a son.
- Deuteronomy 25:11-12 – If a woman hurts a man’s testicles, you should cut off her hand
- Deuteronomy 21: 20-21 – You can beat your slave within an inch of his life.
- Leviticus 15:19 – A woman must be quarantined for 7 days if she’s on her period.
- Leviticus 19:19 – Don’t mix cotton with polyester in your clothes.
- Leviticus 21:5 – Ministers can’t shave their head or their beard
- Leviticus 21:16-23 – No one with a defect can approach the altar of God.
- Numbers 8:24 – Ministers can only serve if they are older than 25, and the can’t serve more than 25 years.
- Leviticus 20:9 – Rebellious children are to be put to death.
I’m sure you’ve heard many of those laws mentioned before and you don’t even blink twice at them. I’m sure you pass them off as part of the Mosaic law and if need be you recite some of these statements below in your defense.
- “Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom”
- “If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law”
- “Follow the Spirit of the law, not the letter”
- “We are not under the law, we are under grace”
- “We are delivered from the law, Christ has made us free”
- “Christ nailed the ordinances against us on the tree”. . . etc
These statements are great to use to exempt yourself from circumcision, shaving ministers’ beards, beating slaves, mixing clothing, or eating unclean meats. But for some reason, these exemptions are powerless to stand up against the 10% benchmark. Strange, don’t you think?
Why Shouldn’t We Require Offerings?
Offerings began even sooner than the practice of tithing did, but no one seems to be preaching about them as a requirement. There were five main offerings required in the Old Testament
- Burnt Offering – Voluntary act of worship; atonement for unintentional sin in general
- Meal Offering – Voluntary act of worship; recognition of God’s goodness and provisions
- Peace Offering – Voluntary act of worship; thanksgiving and fellowship
- Sin Offering – Mandatory atonement for specific unintentional sin
- Tresspass Offering – Mandatory atonement for unintentional sin requiring restitution
Besides these five main offerings in the Old Testament, there were also additional offerings given during these events
- New moon
- Feast of Unleavened Bread – 7 Offerings, 7 days Total
- Feast of Weeks
- Feast of Trumpets
- The Day of Atonement
- Feast of Tabernacles – 7 Offerings, 7 days Total
- The Last Great Day
Even though the Peace offering is not an obligation to us anymore, it was never stopped in the New Testament. If we are basing church practices on Old Testament exemptions, can someone explain why we are required to offer a tithe and not required to offer anything else? Of all the focus on stewardship in the bible, does our selection make sense?
How Does the New Testament Teach us to Give?
The New Testament doesn’t tell us to stop tithing, but it does give guidelines and example on how we should give. Here are a list of bible verses that talk about giving
- 2 Corinthians 9:7 – Decide in your heart what to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. Give cheerfully.
- Acts 20:35 – Work in order to help the weak, and It is more blessed to give than receive
- Acts 2:44-47 – Giving to those who had need and sharing with others as if all things were common with one another
- 2 Corinthians 8:1-24 – The joy of the Macedonians allowed their giving to go beyond their means
- Acts 4:32 – There was no feeling that their possessions were their own as owners sold land and gave to those in need
- Hebrews 13:16 – Do good and share with others
- 1 Timothy 6:17-19 – Be willing to share & rich in good deeds
- 2 Corinthians 9:6-12 – If you sow sparingly you’ll reap sparingly
- 1 John 3:17 – If you don’t give to someone in need, God’s love does not abide in you.
- Galatians 6:2 – Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
- Romans 12:13 – Distribute to the needs of the saints and be hospitable
- Philippians 4:15-17 – Provide for ministers of God.
- Romans 12:8 – Giving is a Spiritual gift that should be used liberally
- 1 Peter 4:8-10 – Be hospitable. Use our abilities to share with one another.
- John 3:16 – Of course the greatest example of giving made by God for giving his only son (his everything)
There are so many verses and examples about how we should give. In all honesty, the list of verses above outline a daunting task for us. I look at those verses and can’t help but think that these early Church believers were super-Christians. How they felt about their possessions and having all things in common blows my mind. Not that I’m all for throwing our money in a pot and redistributing, but I just want to have the mentality that what’s mine is not really mine, but is yours also.
The New Testament clearly shows that our giving should be sacrificial, cheerful, liberal, and consistent. This doesn’t exclude 10% minimum, but neither does it include it. One thing I know for sure is that Jesus’ example of giving and the example of his love should inspire me to give beyond my ability, and I struggle with that.
You Be the Judge
Now that the evidence has been given in this court of law, it is your turn to decide
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Christians were NEVER commanded to tithe. The ancient isrealites were commanded to tithe for a specific reason- to provide for the Tribe of Levi since they were not entitled to an inheritance. Paul gave Christians instructions on giving money- give FREELY, CHEERFULLY, NOT out of obligation, and the amout should be as GOD (not man) purposes in your heart. To demand a tithe out of Christians (most of them Gentile) is unbiblical.
A further study of scripture will reveal that tithing was prior to the law. Read the story of Abraham and Melchizedec in the book of Genesis. the book of Hebrews also mentions the story.
Marcus, When you say, “tithing was before the law” just what do you mean by that? What is your point? Prior to the law of Moses the LORD God had no instituted nor established tithing for any of His people. Prior to the Mosaic Law the Lord God did not expect nor require anyone to tithe anything.
Abraham tithed only one time in his life and it wasn’t out of his cattle, silver, or his gold. He tithed a tenth of the spoils of war to a Priest-King by the name of Melchizedec. If you study historical data during this point in time, tithing was not uncommon among pagan worshippers. in fact, it was a middle eastern customary law that if you won a war and gained spoils that you give a tenth of the spoils to the local city King.
Furthermore, Abraham was never used as an example or pattern for the church (the body of Christ) to follow.
According to the Mosaic Law as recorded in Leviticus 27:30-34, the Lord God restricted the contents of the tithes to consist of only 1)Seed of the land 2)Fruit of the trees and 3)Herd/Flock [livestock]. The Biblical tithes consisted on that which can be eaten. Money [shekel of silver and gold]was a common commodity of ancient monetary exhange and yet it was never a tithing commodity. Furthermore, Gentiles were never required to tithe. Once Israel possessed the land [of Canaan] and cleansed it from all its filthiness and abominations then the land became ‘Holy” and once the Temple was up and running, and the Levites and Priest were in their positions, and once the LORD caused an increase on the agricultural produce and the livestock then Israel [the Jews] can start offering up the tithes to the Levites. Tithes were required to only be brought from the Holy Land of Israel.I have soooo much more to say about this, but suffice it to say, please avoid using Genesis 14 about Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war as a “proof text.” It is not a sound Bible point to use because that was not the point of the text. Please feel free to respond. I would be so delighted to dialogue more in the spirit of Christ.
I agree that Christians are under no “Law” obligation to perform the levitical tithe to their church, nor does Jacob’s or Abraham’s tithe (before the law) make it valid whatsoever, however, some Christians are compelled within their own hearts to give 10%, and sometimes more, to their church. Some Christians choose to celebrate Passover and other Jewish feasts and festivals, some abstain from certain foods, some do other things that are found in the Law, simply because they enjoy the principle, not because they are under any mandate to do it. We should celebrate and respect this and not throw these folks under the bus because they enjoy some of the old traditions. They are not doing it to get blessed or to avoid a curse. They actually love to give. Let them give.
The false institution of the church is your problem. The church is fashioned after Constantine, along with all the lies and unholiness, to a much greater degree the LORD JESUS CHRIST. The Body of CHRIST is the Ecclesia which He founded, Matthew 16:18, which represents everything wholesome and holy. The giving in Luke 6:38 is not restricted to money, but love, mercy, etc. Rather the church building is a pole barn or an elaborate structure, this is not what CHRIST intended for His Assembly, to fashion after the heathens, not only in furniture placement and hierarchy, but building maintenance. This is the major reason that first century AD followers of the Way met in private houses, and the custom continued until the fourth century. When you divorce your mentality from the church and become a member of the Assembly, then you will see all of the lies of the church. GOD bless.
Excellent view point. We don’t judge those who decided in there heart to give to the church there 10% but in the same way Christian’s have the freedom to give to whomever and wherever they decided in there hearts.
WE, Gentile Christians were NEVER commanded to participate in these tithes. We are not Jews, nor do we have an earthly temple and priests to provide for.
Often the push for tithing includes the additional requirement that it all must go to the local church. That also does not make Biblical sense to me.
If our money is cursed (as many churches teach) for not tithing correctly, why do church leaders not return the money to all those giving less than 10%? Why would a church take in all of that cursed money? If a person gives 5,7, or 9%, the church should immediately return the money, lest they take on a horrific curse!
I guess churches that espouse tithing, but collect anything, really don’t believe in it either!
As a Christian I must say that when we tithe and sow into the kingdom we will be blessed. I have written a blog about it also. BLESSINGS!
http://darrylcrawford.hubpages.com/hub/The-Benefits-of-Tithing-and-Sowing-into-Gods-business
My understanding about tithe is, God gave this law for the people, not only jews but the people in general.
Malachi 3:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Will a man rob God?
Jesus came on this earth to restore Moses laws that was being polluted by the herodian-jews in the days of Herod.
Giving tithe must come from the heart and not just a compulsory method of paying God.
it means we are to pay God in spiritual way.
According to Leviticus 27:30-34, under the Mosaic Law tithing became a law for the children of Israel. Gentiles and those outside of Israel were never required to tithe anything. In every passage of Scripture throughout the Old Testament tithing was always food [seed of the land, fruit of the tree(s) and herd/flock [livestock].
During biblical times shekels of silver was the ancient monetary comodity of exchange. Did you know that shekels of silver [money] was never a tithing comodity?
In fact, Jesus nor did his disciples tithed. Not only did the Apostle Paul never tithe, he never even mentioned the word tithe to any of the gentile churches that he established. Hmmmm
Jesus did not come to restore the Law, he came to fulfill the Law. That is he was the anti-type of all the types and shadows that pictured him. He fulfilled it perfectly.
According to Numbers chapter 18, under the Mosaic Law the children of Israel was required to tithe to the Levites and the Levites were required to give the best of the tenth of the tithes to Aaron [the priest]. The Levites kept the bult of the tithes because that was their inheritance.
As for Malachi chapter 3, the messenger Malachi was addressing the priests who became corrupt. Malachi 1:6 on thru chapter 3 is addressing the priests who was robbing God.
I am currently writing a book called “The biblical facts about tithes, tithing, firstfruits and freewill offerings.”….Ambassador Everett
“Gentiles and those outside of Israel were never required to tithe anything”
False! the tenth was in practice even in the ancient times before the mosaic law. I think we should read 1 Samuel 8 in which God was to be replaced by a human King.
“now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have”
“He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights:”
“He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants”
“He will take a tenth of your flocks, and your yourselves will become his slaves”
– the paragraphs only proved that the tenth was enforced outside Israel and no doubt this tenth go hand in hand with the kingdom.
whenever a King was in existence, then there’s a tenth required as his due.
so if Jesus is your King, then where is the tenth due to him?
Malachi 3:8
“Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings.
Yes, All People including Gentiles gave a tenth to EARTHLY kngs and also became thier SLAVES. This was forced, compulsory giving, totally opposite of what Paul teaches. The actual Old testament tithe is more than 20%. Then there are about 7 other types of mandatory offerings. Christians are not Jewish and our king is God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Doesn’t anyone find it odd that all of the apostles taught giving but none taught tithing? Malachi 3:8 is speaking to Levitical Priests. Priests were collecting food and not putting the required amount into the storehouse for the Levites.
so how do u understand Paul’s wordings in Heb 7:8?
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die;
but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living”
The giving tenth was in practice in the days of the Levitical priesthood.
After Jesus resurrection he assumed the office of Melchizedek priesthood and tithing continued under his direction.
so if we rewrite Paul’s wordings this must be the exact words he said.
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by the Levitical priest who die;
but in the other case, by Melchizedek [Jesus]who is declared to be living”
no doubt the tithing is still in force even today.
I’m glad you brought that scripture up. Abraham’s tithe to Melchizadek was VOLUNTARY, and not from his own property. It was from his spoils of war. So therefore our giving to Jesus is also voluntary as taught by Paul (2 Cor 9:7)
This is the New Covenant,making the old one obsolete, as stated by Paul (or whomever the author is) in Hebrews 8:13.
Do you really think The Father has a curse for you for giving 9.9%? This does not compute in the New Covenant at all.
Mike, my answer is plain and simple that the tithe in Paul’s time changed hands from the Levitical priest to Melchizedek the high priest in Heb 7:8
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die [mortal Levite priest];
but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living”
He is our high priest, authorized to accept our tenth as the heb 7:8 tried to imply.
the commandment therefore still stands.
Hey Bro John, Peace and blessings. I appreciate t he dialogue. As we carefully analyze all the Scriptures as it relate to tithes and tithing, we see that prior to the Law of Moses the LORD God had not instituted or established tithing for any of His people. Prior to and during the time of Abraham the religious pagan practicing Canaanites built altars to offer sacrifices to their pagan deities. The land of Canaan was filled with a preponderance of artifacts and pagan groves, altars, and religious remains. It was also a Canaanite practice of offer tithes from spoils of war to the local king priest(s). This particular tithing was an ancient Canaanite middle eastern customary law. When Abram gave tithes to the priest-king Melchizedek he was honoring a Canaanite middle eastern customary law; the spoils of war was expected and required to be tithed. This particular tithe was not required nor instituted by the LORD. Abram was very rich when he came out of Egypt. He never tithed out of his riches, cattle, silver, or gold. He was very rich before he ever tithed. Abram himself only tithed one time [and that happen to be out of the spoils of war].
As we carefully examine 1Samuel chapter 8 we that Israel wanted an earthly king to rule over them. The LORD God was their King, but they wanted to be like other nations. They rejected the LORD God as being their KING. -1Samuel 8:1-7
Under the Mosaic Law the tithes were set apart for the Levites and the priests. The LORD never instituted that tithes go to kings. Never. The Lord reveal to Samuel that because Israel reject God as their King and was determined to be like other nations. They no longer wanted God to rule over them. -1Samuel 8:7b
God revealed to Samuel and told Samuel to let Israel know what manner of king they chose shall be. Their earthly king shall rule over them like a slave-master; he shall take [by force] the tenth [tithes] of your fields, your vineyards, olive-yards, sheep, and give them to his servants.
1Samuel chapter 8 in not a passage to substantiate that tithes are to be given to a king, but to show the king that Israel want will pervert to ways of God for Israel.
the tenth was never endorsed by God to be given to any of the kings of Israel. The tithes was never due to kings.
Bro John, it is my opinion that you are reading into the texts what it is not saying; That is called “Eisegesis.”
If we are going to rightly divide the word of truth, we must apply proper hermeneutics, exegesis, grammar, immediate and historical context, biblical etymology, and syntax.
As far as Jesus being our King: Absolutely He is our KING. For He is the KING of kings. As we carefully analyze the Scriptures, we see no biblical text to substantiate that we [the body of Christ] should be tithing to Jesus. Peter, James, nor John ever mentioned about Jesus receiving tithes after his resurrection or ascension. Paul never even mentioned the word tithe or tithing to any of the Gentile churches that he established. Paul never tithed nor did he receive them.
As for as Malachi chapter 3, Malachi is addressing the corrupt priests who was robbing God. To understand Chapter 3, you must read chapter 1 and 2.
The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews who made a profession of faith in Jesus as their Messiah. During this time many Hebrews were yet carrying out Old Testament animal sacrifices and etc. The temple was still up and running.
the writer of Hebrews clearly demonstrates the superiority of the priesthood of Christ over the Levitical priesthood. The levitical priesthood ended. Furthermore, the Levites were men who died and their bodies return to dust. They received tithes while they were alive and working in their rotation. But once they died that was it. -Hebrews 7:23
Hebrews chapter 7 is substantiating the unchangeable priesthood of Christ. It is not giving instructions to and/or for the church. To take this text and make it a tithing text to the church – is to take a text and use it as a proof text which is out of context. To substantiate a doctrine for the church you would need to have at least two Scriptural witnesses. God bless you, bro.
“the tenth was never endorsed by God to be given to any of the kings of Israel. ”
it only means that the phrase “On earth as it is in heaven” made the tithe an eternal commandment with no origin how it got started.
we can not say, it wasn’t endorsed by God since there was no record to support it. Melchizedek and tithes are both wrapped in mysteries and therefore eternal.
it came to my understanding that the practices of the nations described in 1Samuel were in fact originated from the creation of God.
if the ancient tenth is of pagan then we can also say the offerings made by Abel must be pagan too.
how do u describe Abel’s practices? is this also a pagan practices or commandment of God? yet God responded to him by accepting this kind of practices as the basic rule of laws that was adopted in the Mosaic times.
here u go my explanation how tithe got started plain and simple.
Tithe is still not abolish.
“the tenth was never endorsed by God to be given to any of the kings of Israel. The tithes was never due to kings.”
i think we need to understand what does a tithe mean in the dictionary.
“tithe means an offering of a tenth part of some personal income”
there is your problem. tithe is tenth.
Hey Bro John, Thank you for the dialogue. As you read carefully the context of 1Samuel chapter 8 and the following chapters, you will or should I say, you should clearly see that Saul was not a king that represented the LORD. He didn’t fear the Lord. He was a cruel king that enslaved, mistreated, and abused the children of Israel. He took their fields, their vineyards, their olive-yards, the tenth of their sheep and the tenth of their seed and gave it to his servants in his kingdom. According to what God had established with Moses for the children of Israel, the tithes were to be given to the Levites and the Levites were to give a tenth of the tithes to Aaron the Priest. -Leviticus 18:20-31
Bro John, the Hebraic word for tithe is Ma’asar. Mar’asar simply means tenth. In order for you to understand what a biblical tithe consist of – you need to resort to the bible and the bibical Hebraic definition of the word tithe and not a modern revised dictionary which doesn’t define the biblical view of the tithe.
You said, “tithe means an offering of a tenth part of some personal income.” You must be using a modern revised dictionary of some sort. In order to be bibically sound and consistent with the Scriptures you must be faithful to the original Hebraic word for tithes and how it defines it. It doesn’t mean a tenth part of one’s income. Based upon the Scriptures, tithing was never based upon one’s income. It was never money. According to Leviticus 27:30-32 tithes consisted of the following: 1)Seed of the land 2)Fruit of the trees and 3) Herd/Flock [livestock].
Throughout the bible tithes always consisted of that which could be eaten. Israel had plenty of money [shekels of silver]. But! money was never instituted by God has a tithing comodity. You won’t be able to find one verse in the bible which says or indicate that tithes is/was a tent part of one’s income.
Proverbs 30:6 says, “Do not add to his [God’s]words…”
By adding the words “..of some personal income” you then are changing God’s original meaning and definition of the word tithe. You don’t have the authority, the right, or the freedom to do that. That is exactly what modern dictionaries do. They add, change, and distort. I think that you would do better to stick with the original Hebrew and Koine Greek definition and meaning of any biblical word.
Bro John, a ancient proverb says,”Wise men differ; fools fall out.” I thank you for your dialogue. It is great when two brothers in Christ can dialogue, differ and not fall out. We may vigorously present our understanding, but we must remain respectful and honor our Lord, Savior, and Redeemer Jesus Christ. Again I say, thank you brother. May Christ be glorified.
“You said, You must be using a modern revised dictionary of some sort. ”
Thank you for your respond to my commentary. i believe that this lengthy debate will take time in order to see the truth of this tithing law and i’m sure you have a quality time for investemnt no matter how long will it take for the sake of saving one’s soul out of this discussion.
Since you said that a tithe in the dictionary does not conform to your standard, perhaps it would be nice if we take the opinion of some people who invest their time in seeking the truth in the Wikipedia.
Wikipedia says:
” tithes are defined to be the tenth part of the increase, yearly arising and renewing from the profits of lands, the stock upon lands, and the personal industry of the inhabitants”
From the ancient times accordingly, tithe was regarded as tax for payment. the source was excerpted from Deuteronomy book.
“At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates”
the word increase can be synonymous to an income base on their analysis.
accordingly, Income is a financial gain (earned or unearned) accruing over a given period of time
income therefore refers to our earnings. although in the ancient time the word “increase ” is more prevalent usage to refer on harvesting, a primary source of livelihood in Israel.
Is tithe for agriculture only? of course not!
let’s read this in Deut 14 for a correct definition of terms.
23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
notice this phrase ” Then shalt thou turn it into money” – it’s clearly written to mean in reference to our income.
if some will say i don’t own an agricultural land to pay tithes that excuses will bring you to a much trouble more than you ever preached the wrong gospel.
because it’s in my understanding that Jesus never mean to build his own church away from the custom of Jews.
in fact it’s just the opposite of what we receive from these modern preachers.
he preached the gospel not in the middle of people in the market place. it was first preached inside their synagogue for being a part of the members .
well for one thing if the elders could have accepted his truth, i don’t think he will find himslef planning to build his church for that certain reason anymore. that would be a nonsense move if he did.
Now another proof that Jesus did not do away with the laws as i listed down for proof.
1. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and John was not even a Christian or a leader of one sect.
until his death he was a Jew faithfully to have followed the old custom.
so where do we base Jesus’ baptism?
baptism is something we believed into and Jesus baptism was for the Jewish sect such as the Sabbath keeping.
one point of interest that the Sabbath was not abrogated even after the first covenant was broken.
so those who said the laws are not required for the new testament times?
think again, these laws like the Sabbath keeping and the tithing are proof that they were not included under Moses covenant and were bound to continue.
because Jesus came on this earth long AFTER the first covenant was broken due to the unfaithfulness of the Jews.
2. The church was founded on top of the Prophets and apostles.
if you are a civil engineer you can easily define foundation as a supporter of structures interconnected to protect them from going down.
In biblically sense Foundation can also be synonymous to the root of the tree in Romans 11:16.
read:
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
holiness can come only in reading and accepting the truth of the scriptures. because from reading we come to the understanding of the law.
Read Romans 7:12:
“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good”
so it’s easy to understand that the writing of the prophets and the apostles’ are connected to each other in supporting the church.
where in the old testament that Jesus possibly abrogated the law of tithing?
adding anything to Jesus’ words can be so grievous that it could earn a consequence of punishment.
Rev 22:18
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
notice what Malachi said:
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
why would Malachi send the non-tithe believers to such punishment if the tithe can be bound to non existence?
that’s nonsense if God is a God of love, where is love then from out of this unjust punishment?
i guess we need to exert our logic here before everything would be too late.
“biblical etymology, and syntax”
where is hope from out of this syntax error if the teachings are proven correct?
the verse of interest is found in Hebrew 7:8 for a clearer view of everything. treasure it instead of rejecting it. perhaps it might save you from falling into sin. I finally discovered that you are preaching another Jesus.
God Bless Brother and may the God of love open your eyes to the truth.
even if i post a lot of times about the incident happened in 1 Samuel you’re just turning your blind eye to see the truth of this tenth.
Kings are representatives of God on earth and whatever we entitle to God as payment will likewise do to the kings. because tithe is also a tenth part of your increase. so what’s the difference between the two tenths? nothing, right? it’s the same percentage of 1/10.
pls read Mathew 22:21, a comparison of two leaders by Jesus Christ.
Hey bro John, Thank you for you replies. I don’t see that two brothers who are discussing issues about what they understand and/or believe as it relate to tithing has to do with the salvation of one’s soul. I respectfully disagree with your position. But, to accuse me of preaching another Jesus is far fetched. Let me tell you what I believe about the biblical Jesus.
-Jesus pre-existed prior to his incarnation
-He was born of a virgin named Mary
-He Was/is the Eternal Son of God
-He lived a perfect and sinless life
-He was judged by Pilate and condemned to death
-He was crucified by hands of the Romans
-He bore our sins in his own body on the cross
-He suffered the wrath and judgment of God for us
-He died on a cross for our sins
-His blood was shed from his body for our redemption
-He was buried in a tomb
-He rose again from the dead for our justification
-He gave many demonstrated evidences of he resurrection
-He ascended up to heaven and is highly exalted
-He is our Great High Priest and advocate with the Father
-He ever lives to make intercession for us
-He is the absolute one and only way to the Father
I believe with my heart on the Lord Jesus Christ and I boldly confess Jesus Christ as my Lord, Savior, and Redeemer; for I am saved by God’s grace through faith in Christ alone. Jesus Christ is my salvation and my life.
My salvation is not based upon tithes. My salvation is solely based upon the sacrificial, substitutionary, redemptive death and shed blood of Christ on the cross. -1Cor.15:1-4;Rom.1:16;10:8-10
“My salvation is not based upon tithes.”
you’re mistaken. Jesus died only for our past sins and not for the future sins. his death won’t necessarily mean of taking away the laws of god. because sin is the transgression of the law.
the logic is there that when there’s no law, there is no sin. how can we say the tithe is no longer binding when it is connected to the law of stealing which is included in the 10 commandments of God?
Malachi had warned these pro non-tithe people of heavy consequence. they will perish in a fiery end as being testified by Jesus in Mathew 5:17-18. this strengthens my belief that the laws will last up to the end of times.
see the example given by the new testament teacher in Mathew 23:23?
“You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill, and cumin. But you have neglected the most important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former”
he never said, they should neglect the law. he just wants to demonstrate that the law of tithe needs mercy, justice, and faith to accomplish it.
keep in mind that he is our new testament teacher and from that point of view he should set an example of the way a Christian behave for the people to see.
another proof that the law is here to stay can be found in Luke 10:
“what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
so what is the basis of eternal life?
keep in mind that the only scriptures available in Jesus time were the first scriptures called the old testament.
do u think as a new testament teacher he will teach the guy to be saved by using the old testament scriptures as a basis if it deemed not necessary in the later times?
I urge u to think about it.
“To take this text and make it a tithing text to the church – is to take a text and use it as a proof text which is out of context.”
i told you it’s all there written plainly in Hebrew 7 : 8 in which Paul made it clear about giving tithe.
“In the one case, [the tenth] is collected by people who die [mortal Levite priest];
but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living”
Since when did Jesus start to collect tithe as a Priest?
[but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living]
we can not say he did this when he was a human being.
no such proof can be found in the bible.
collecting tithes by Christ started after he assumed the office of Melchizedek, the high priest of God.
no doubt! it’s for the new testament church and this is the only evidence that paying tithe is still binding up to our time.
there is no out of context committed when you read and understand this simple English text in Hebrew 7:8.
i don’t know why can’t you just surrender to this piece of truth about tithe in the new testament.
the tithe remained a binding laws :
“Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”
“As we carefully analyze the Scriptures, we see no biblical text to substantiate that we [the body of Christ] should be tithing to Jesus”
Hebrew 7:8 is the only proof that the tithe is still binding today.
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die [mortal Levite priest];
but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living”
Greetings bro John,
Would you answer a few question which I typed below? Thank you for your time. God bless.
According to Numbers chapter 18 the the children of Israel were required to give the whole tithes to the Levites; and the Levites were required to give a tenth of the best tithes to the priest. The Levites were servants to the priests. The tithes were the inheritance set aside for the Levites and a tenth of the tithes were inheritance set apart for the priests.
Questions:
-If Jesus receives tithes today, through whom does he receive them?
– Who is the person(s) that stands in the place of Christ to recieve the tithes?
– What is the purpose of tithing today?
– What does the tithes consists of?
– What is the Hebrew and Greek word and definition of the word “tithe?”
“-If Jesus receives tithes today, through whom does he receive them?
– Who is the person(s) that stands in the place of Christ to receive the tithes?”
Thanks for your patience.
See after christ Peter took the job of leadership for the church.
there’s a lesson to be taught inside John 21:15 and Mathew 16:19
“Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you,” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.” – J
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” – M
the authority was given to the church whoever holds the key position.
so it’s understood that Peter accepted all the tithes of the people as directed by Christ, our Melchizedek.[Heb 7:8]
In Heb 7:8 we understand that the tithing law changed hands from the Levites to Melchizedek and the first directive was received by Peter in those times. let’s be it that way.
“– What is the purpose of tithing today?
– What do the tithes consist of?”
I will give u my answer only if u tell me how do u accept Paul’s word of testimony in Heb 7:8?
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die [mortal Levite priest];
but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living”
I just want to know ur real position here toward Paul’s explanation in Heb 7:8.
good luck!
So why do we have to dig up the ancient tenth in the past when Paul himself said that tithe changes hand from the Levites to Melchizedek priest who is now our Lord Jesus.
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die [mortal Levite priest]; but in the other case, by him [Melchizedek/Jesus/Eternal] who is declared to be living”
It’s a matter of time before u finally realize the mistake of what u have learned from your religion.
“When Abram gave tithes to the priest-king Melchizedek he was honoring a Canaanite middle eastern customary law;”
“When Abram gave tithes to the priest-king Melchizedek he was honoring a Canaanite middle eastern customary law; ”
I almost lost my mind when I see this “pure assertions” of yours.
But that’s alright, everything is respected for the sake of peace and I know you’re not the kind of man who would just throw out things that don’t fit your taste.
now if the giving tenth would tantamount to pagan worship how do u accept the way Abraham paid his tithe to God?
if u were God and u knew that giving tenth is abominable to your eyes, would u accept Abraham’s gift?
Take the word from Paul and learn a lesson from it in 1 Cor 10.
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.
Just keep in mind of what he said in verse 20:
“but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God”
base from these few paragraphs do u consider Abraham’s tithe a pagan practice?
To clear some confusions about this tenth and where it came from, this tenth had been established long before Adam was born and it wasn’t a pagan practice as some might have presumed to have seemed.
in case u missed this, the kingdom of God was given first to Lucifer.
he was placed on earth to administer the government of God. but for some reasons he failed to carry out God’s commandment that resulted to the destruction of earth [Gen 1:2]
so it’s easy to understand that the coming of God’s kingdom was actually the second time but under the human era.
the phrase “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” proved that the laws of God were set up first in heaven then on earth. When there’s no law there’s no kingdom. both are co-existed together such as the law of tithe that is due to them as one of the requirements of the government.
For those ignorant who don’t understand God’s creation, he created things in dual form.
we can presume that taxation represents the tithing law on this earth.
the following pattern of proof and its respective copy are listed below:
1. God – Man
2. Father and Mother[Gen 2:24] – father and mother
3. angels – animals
4. Heaven – earth
5. throne of God – Jerusalem
6. God’s kingdom – Human kingdom
7. Tithing – taxation
so if they said that Abraham practiced the Assyrian tenth law, my answer is no. the tenth had no history of beginning and how it ended up in tenths. only God can tell this mystery.
but if we prove its existence in the bible, the best answer I could offer is the genesis account where Adam lived and died at the age of 930 years.
there’s a speculation that he had been indoctrinated about this tenth doctrine and passed down to his son of sons until the flood and from the sons of Noah, it spread and scattered as humans learned to build nations after nations who still lived by this law.
The tenth is actually a replica of the tithe in heaven.
The questions that need to be raised is, where did the ancient kingdoms get this giving a tenth as the law?
there was no record to have shown in the bible the exact date of times the origin of this tenth, even in the history of the world.
however, if we follow the genesis account about the creation of the first humans, we’ll be able to trace its root presumed to have happened between the 6th and the 7th day of creation.
remember God used his own calendar as a standard form in creating the universe and earth.
so it’s presumed that Adam must have lived on this earth for a more or less a thousand years having abided by God’s standard rule of one day to God is one thousand years to man [2Pet3:8] conforming to his 930 years of age [Gen5:5]
Adam must have been indoctrinated by God in those times long before the sin came and this law was handed down from generation to generation until Noah’s flood. an example of this custom can be found in genesis 4:3:
“Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil
as an offering to the Lord.”
then the sons of Noah, therefore, propagate it as they scattered on earth to become nations after nations.
it’s not a surprising thing to read about this tenth in the ancient civilization outside the bible. Because this tenth can be traceable presumably its root from the creation. therefore tenth is God’s law
Taxes are for the government and tithes, for God’s kingdom.
For those who were taught not to tithe,
didn’t Jesus say “Thy Kingdom come thy will be done one earth as it is in heaven”
if tithing is a will of God then rest assure that those in heaven are required to tithe too.
Hey Bro John, I greet you in the spirit of grace and peace. I really want to understand your basis for believing that tithes are for ‘the Kingdom of God’ and for ‘those who are in heaven.’ Can you provide atleast two verses Scriptures that clearly support your statement?
Question: According Matthew 6:9-13 Jesus was teaching his disciples a model prayer. How did you get tithing out of Matthew 6:10? According to Deuteronomy 14:28-29;26:12 tithes were to be shared/given to the Levites and shared with the stangers, the fatherless [orphans] and widows. According to Leviticus 27:30-34 the biblical tithes always consisted of the following: 1)Seed of the Land 2) Fruit of the tree(s) and Herd/Flock [livestock]. Moses nor any of the prophets said that tithing was for the kingdom of God nor did they say or indicate that those in heaven practice tithing. Tithing under the Mosaic Law was only brought forth from the Holy Land. Brother John, I would be delighted to hear your reply. Thank you and God bless.
The phrase “…your will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven” built my confidence to believe that the laws of God were set up first in heaven then on earth.
the covenant, as well as other laws, are heavenly made rules for all.
where the kingdom of God stays, then there the set of laws to start from.
so it’s natural for a kingdom to require a rule of laws as a principle and so there’s no need to doubt the existence of tithes in heaven since the kingdom is in heaven.
the tithe laws on earth reflected heavenly inherent practices.
the question that needs to be answered is, Is tithe a will of God?
“Tithing under the Mosaic Law was only brought forth from the Holy Land”
Yes, you are correct! But the tithe has not connection with the mosaic rules. it was here on earth long before Abraham was born. He was the first to give a tithe to Melchizedek. who is now our Melchizedek?
it’s Jesus who assumed a high priest of God in the line of Melchizedek.
therefore instead of giving tithe in a levitical way we are giving it in a Melchizedek way as well.
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die;
but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living”
I hope u do understand Heb 7. it’s all there clearly written that the law of tithes is to stay forever and ever.
since when did Jesus collect tithe according to Paul in Hebrew 7:8?
the collection is for the priest alone and not for ordinary people.
so there is no record to show that Jesus in his lifetime collected it.
so what is the basis of Paul in Heb 7:8?
“In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die;
but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living”
it’s for the church of today! that’s the only viable solution I can offer. because Jesus is now our Melchizedek and, therefore, our high priest FOREVER.
“I really want to understand your basis for believing that tithes are for ‘the Kingdom of God”
there seemed not clear on Jesus message to the jews in Mathew 22:22
“So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
the question raised by the jews was for paying tax.
yet in Jesus words, he included God as one of the receivers.
so why did he include God?
is it because some pastors will teach their students not to tithe or forget to tithe?
here is my analysis to the problem.
1. caesar is a leader on earth and so is God in heaven
2. he ruled in his kingdom while God ruled in heaven
3. Roman empire is his kingdom while God is God’s kingdom
4. Tax was paid for his kingdom while tithes for God’s kingdom
Giving to God is giving tithe to God.
give to caesar is to pay tax and
give to God does the same.
so give is synonymous to pay.
the jews understood of what is to give for God. he was referring this to tithes which are a part of their custom of paying to God.
So why didn’t Jesus complete his thought on tithes in Mathew 22:21?
“So [give] back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
see the enclosure I made to the word “give”?
he intentionally worded it to bring his purpose of how to treat the two leaders equally.
if caesar’s paying tax is compulsory in nature then it goes well with God. to pay caesar is also to pay God and the only law the jews understood is the law of tithes.
no doubt why didn’t Jesus complete his thought on in Mathew 22:21?
because some leaders of the church will teach their followers to do away with this law.
“Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
“Abraham tithed only one time in his life and it wasn’t out of his cattle, silver, or his gold. ”
that’s not a logic. Abraham reached the age of 99 as it was recorded in genesis account. Yet the entire book did not provide any specific details that reflect his age.
one instance can be found in gen 7:8
Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah.
no specific kind of names of which animal is clean and the animal is unclean.
In Abraham case, he gave his tithe so many times that he influenced Jacob to do so in gen 28:21-22.
“21 so that I return safely to my father’s household, then the Lord[a] will be my God 22 and[b] this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”
now if the nation Israel is a body of Abraham in what basis do they pay their tithes?
” One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”
” One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”
yes, they paid their tithes because Abraham paid his tithes too.
that’s the basis of their tithing.
now if the tithe is a kind of payment from the increase to support life, how sure Abraham will one time earn his living for the rest of his 99 years of age. he would die in hunger after his first and last tithe to God.
so there’s no logic to support this one time tenth of Abraham.
“that circumcision is not a New Testament practice”
sometimes too much spiritual things can lead to a worst result.
didn’t Paul say circumcision is done away?
Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.
it’s true. paul’s writings contain so many conflicting messages and it takes for a spirit to enlighten the readers.
however in Rom 2:25 circumcision in the flesh can be concluded as binding.
Paul was accused of doing away with the laws in acts 21:21-25.
what was his respond?
“…there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality
certainly, circumcision was not even included to the rules for the gentiles.
“The New Testament clearly shows that our giving should be sacrificial, cheerful, liberal, and consistent. This doesn’t exclude 10% minimum, but neither does it include it. One thing i know for sure is that Jesus example of giving and the example of his love should inspire me to give beyond my ability; and I struggle with that”
I agree! all things can be found inside the bible for the availability of the truth and we don’t need another truth that will excuse them from observing God’s law. remember that it was the people who failed and caused the first covenant to collapse. the laws of God are to be kept under the covenant.
Let review of what Paul said in Romans 8:4,
” For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.
And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
do they know what that means?
1. in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us
2. who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
yes, I agree with this. because the law is spiritual and it takes for a spirit to obey its requirements. that’s the reason why God send his holy spirit for the believers sake and not to do away with it.
The law is to remain FOREVER.
Thank you for this word of truth.
I always wonder why, if one believes in the law of tithing (which I no longer do), why they don’t then question the definition of church. The NT says that the new church is established in our hearts. I am the church. Or question what priest? Are we not told “You are a royal priesthood….” I give to the community on my own and through my heart. I give far more than 10%. When the church starts to open the storehouse etc, etc. and following it literally and to the letter, perhaps I may rethink it, but I choose to live free indeed with the heart of Christ within in my own holy temple.
i appreciate ur position as a free will giver for the church. but that is not the pattern God wants us to follow. Abraham and Jesus are both tithe giver. u cannot establish a giving without a law.
During Paul’s time, he encouraged the people in christ to give more than they could give. for what prupose? to feed the hungry for drought affected victims in Jerusalem.
so there’s a record that appears to be an extra amount of collection for urgent needs. but the point here, he didn’t teach the people to abrogate the tithe law. because the act of giving is also an act of mercy, an element that requires for the tithing law.