The Barna Group just released some new statistics on tithing and donations for 2007. – here. Interestingly enough George Barna takes a stand against tithing as a legitimate practice in the New Testament Church. This is all kind of exciting to me, because I’m in the middle of reading the book, “Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola and George Barna. I am about two-thirds of the way through and I can’t seem to put the book down. I will write a post about that when i’m finished it, but I just mentioned it because I had just finished up the chapter on “tithing”. Ironic. . . i guess.
I just want to highlight some things that were said:
“Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money.”
I would like to point out that greed is not biased to non-tithers. I’ve heard many times that Tithing is an antidote for greed. The reason why tithing does not overcome greed is that tithing is not the master of greed. A pure heart, that is undefiled and led by the Spirit of God is the master of greed. Tithing has no power over sin, but the Spirit does. This is confirmed because although Israel had tithing completely spelled out for them, they still had to overcome their greedy hearts. Also regardless of whether our giving is plainly spelled out for us through tithing or is an unpredictable factor through spirit-led giving, we still have to listen and obey. In other words, just because how much we should give is written in black and white compared to Spirit-led giving, which is not; we still have to put down our selfishness and obey one or the other.
“Strangely, tithing is a Jewish practice, not a Christian principle espoused in the New Testament. The idea of a tithe – which literally means one-tenth or the tenth part – originated as the tax that Israelites paid from the produce of the land to support the priestly tribe (the Levites), to fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. The ministry of Jesus Christ, however, brought an end to adherence to many of the ceremonial codes that were fundamental to the Jewish faith. Tithing was such a casualty. Since the first-century, Christians have believed in generous giving, but have not been under any obligation to contribute a specific percentage of their income.”
Many people are blinded to the point where they view tithing as a “principle” not a “practice”. George Barna said it right, “tithing is a Jewish practice, not a Christian principle”. There are 2 practices that come to mind when thinking about the Church. One, Baptism, and Two, the Lord’s Supper. Tithing is not one of them, nor is it a principle. I’ve said this so many times- tithing is a standard, not a principle. In the old testament, we see Abraham as the first person recorded to tithe. But we are not commanded to follow Abraham’s actions, we are commanded to follow his faith.
Barna also mentions the 3 functions of the tithe. Support the Levites, fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. At this point I see the Church doing a good job of fulfilling one out of three of those tasks. That’s if you want to equate support of the levites with support of those who are ministering. If we were busy trying to build God’s kingdom instead of our own kingdom, I think we would be doing a much better job with fulfilling the other functions of the tithe (not that I want the tithe and all its purposes incorporated into the Church). Just hypothetically speaking.
During the first five years of the decade, an average of 84 cents out of every dollar donated by born again adults went to churches. In the past three years, though, the proportion has declined to just 76 cents out of every donated dollar.
I find this statistic very, very interesting indeed. This is saying that for the first five years since 2000 that of all the donations given, 84% of them were given to Church organizations, but since the past three years, only 76% of the total donations had been given to Church organizations. So people have been giving 8% less to their churches and giving it to some other organization. I don’t know, to me, that is a big jump. Think about it this way, imagine if 8 out of 100 people stopped giving the money to their church and instead gave it to the Red Cross. Hmmm, very interesting. Maybe a little wake up call for our greedy Church budgets. You can read more about my thoughts on the house church movement and its effect on Church budgets
“If this transition in the perceptions and giving behavior of born again adults continues to accelerate, the service functions of conventional churches will be redefined within the next eight to ten years, and conventional churches will have to adopt new ways of assisting people in need.”
That was a part of Barna’s interpretation of what the statistics are telling him. And I agree.
What are your thoughts on the new tithing statistics and trends? Do you think Barna is on target with his analysis? Do you think this blog is on target?
Use CommonSense says
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
I dare you tithe propagandist to read and try to understand Acts 13:39
Also stop saying Matthew 23:23 supports tithing, this addressing Jews before Jesus paid in full works on the Cross!
Use CommonSense says
Acts 13
Verse 39
“Through him (JESUS) everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Billy says
Actually, since it seems like excuses not to give are really the subject here. Why argue or try to prove a point that really is a matter of the heart. 2 Corinthians 9:7 defines our perspective on giving and it should define yours also. Jesus talked about surpassing what the law commanded, in our actions in helping others, ect…… we see the early church selling property and giving their possessions as the church and others had need. So I guess your right, we have a higher standard as the body of Christ concerning giving, we should be giving more than what was required by the law. I am thankful to God that I am coming to realize that all that I have belongs to God, that is much more than a measly 10%. Let us be obedient in everything and stop trying to cause dissension and confusion as if giving to God has ceased under the dispensation of grace.
Jared Brian says
Billy,
I have nothing against anyone using the tithe as a starting point for the personal goals. I think it is commendable. Although, I don’t believe it is a universal principle, or a standard that is relevant to even a majority of people. Only the farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe off their occupational income. Regardless of it being an agrarian society, farming and herding is still only a small portion of the commercial earnings in the old testament. There were bankers, doctors, lawyers, carpenters, tax-men, government, potters, blacksmiths, tent makers, weavers . . . who did not tithe on their occupational income.
I’m not bringing that up to persuade others to give as little as they can; i’m just trying to persuade people in understanding how irrelevant the tithe was even for a majority of Israel.
A question to ask yourself is where was the starting point for a carpenter’s income in Israel? Besides the different offerings a carpenter was required to give, there was no indication for a minimum amount of giving. So, it would seem bizarre for a group of people under grace, a new covenant, and a spiritual helper to institute a standard that appeared before the law, but was NOT universally applied during the law; and now all of a sudden is universally binding today. See the flip-flop?
I’m just trying to break people free from the focus of tithing as well. You can tell a man in bondage that there is a wonderful world outside his cell, or you can unlock the chains for him.
John says
Love of money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10)
exchange the tithe for money, take the money & go to a place where the LORD you GOD chooses, spend that money for whatever heart desires, whatever you and your household.
(Deuteronomy 14:22-26)
in Malachi 3:1-18, was God’s message for all future believers or for a rebellious nation of Jews at that moment in time?
the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) where was the Priest and Levite going in such a hurry that they could not stop to render aid to their fellow Jewish brother, perhaps to give or receive their portion of tithes
Acts 15:1-29 The Jerusalem Decree
1 Corinthians 9:18 “what is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.”
2 Timothy 2:15 ” Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 ( Difficult times for Christian service)
Hebrews 7:1-18 ( Annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness)
Proverbs 22:16 “He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches AND he who gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty
Love GOD and love others, you can’t pay or work your way into heaven. ( Matthew 7:21-23)
as always stay in prayer , in JESUS name amen!!
RevRunD says
Tithes are part of the law (which goes unfulfilled in some part, in each of our lives).
Tithes are right and tithing does not earn anything.
I dont circumcise.
I dont stone disobedient children.
I eat shrimp.
The law has not passed away.
I do not try to keep the law.
I cant.
I don’t have to.
Gal 5:6 (ESV) 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
But I try to do what I am able to, in order to help make disciples.
Giving is gift I enjoy; a gift i employ; to fulfill a crucial role in the body of Christ.
We provide resources out of what God has given us.
10 percent is a good example (that I am not required to give) from the Law.
The law served as a tutor till Christ came.
Christ came to redeem me and i am dead to the world.
ALL I have is Christ’s.
And I use part, of all, to feed the minister, pay for electric at the worship shelter, and minister to the poor and the sick and the needy.
I give more than 10% and have never lacked.
I am a minister and I understand that ‘priests’ didnt tithe.
but i also own a house too (because this church cant provide a home)
and they pay us to persue every opportunity to advance the gospel instead of teach math or clean houses or lay bricks.
and I still work in the community with my hands so folks respect the preacher.
So keep the useful fires burning and give, give, give.
Not because the law says so,
because your heart compels you!
Just give all your resources to promote the good news:
that God loves; that Satan hates; and that Jesus saves!
feed your children, feed the flock, feed the poor.
give generously;
crazy give! like, absurdly give; and laugh at what you let go.
give-it-away, give-it-away, give-it-away now…
“Tithe” is not a christian vocabulary word.
Give freely as you freely receive everything.
Free up the resources of God’s family by investing in ministry that works.
Some churches will die (but they wont be missed!)
end of rant…
Billy says
Amen to that Brother!!! Let the message continue to proclaim that truly Jesus has set the captive free. Now we are free to give above and beyond the tithe. I don’t give unto the Lord to be saved, I give unto the Lord because I am Saved.
joel says
Surely you read Malachi 3:10 or you are just tithing because you are just a nice guy or maybe you are intrested in the harvest of financial reward. When did christians or pastors decide to change Gods instructions he gave Moses? Jesus when he was here did not change the law of tithing because he mentioned the tithe of food that the pharasies were paying and also commented that tithing was in the law of Moses. Mathew 23:23
Many forget that Jesus was a Jew, he knew that the tithe was paid to the Levites after they receive it then they gave the food from the tithes to the high priest who ministered at the Temple. Deteuronomy 14:22-29
If Jesus received or asked for tithes he would have sinned but he didnt because the bible teaches that he sent one of the lepers he healed to show himself to the high priest.Jesus knew the Mosiac Law that only Levites and High priests were permitted by God to receive tithes and offerings for the Temple. The pharasies that were following Jesus to try and bring an accusation against him for breaking the the Mosiac law did not have an accusation against Jesus.
If Jesus sinned he would have not been able to die for our sins.
Anonymous says
Acts 13:39-“and through Him (Jesus) everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the law of Moses.
Galatians 3:10 ” All who rely on observing the law (for justification from God) are under a curse, for it is written “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law”
Galatians 3:11 “So it is clean that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, ‘It is through faith that a righteous person has life”
James 2:10 ” For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking them all”
Romans 8:32 “Since God did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all surely he will with him (Jesus) F-R-E-E-L-Y give us all things.
Jesus was the only one who could keep the whole law and our position in him is what gives us favor and right-standing with God. If people add anything to his work of Grace it is evident that they do not have any revelation of Grace or what he paid for on the Cross.
Anonymous says
Galatians 3:11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law,
The Holy Spirit resides in us to help us and guide us. Therefore, we have an advantage over the Old Testament Covenant. They had external laws to keep them in line. We have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit because Jesus sent him to us.
Billy says
Many people look for loop holes and reasons not to give. If you have a problem giving to further the kingdom of god here on earth, don’t give. You wont have to answer to anyone but God!!! Please stop trying to justify why you don’t give, because your not convincing me or any other committed man of God. We have a higher standard as believers, just look at the early believers in acts. They gave more than just a tenth, and I do not see early believers justifying why they didn’t give.
Sam says
Many people like yourself have been psychologically indoctrinated about this giving and building the Kingdom of God..Well let me tell you if you want to think like that you go for it. I personally believe that you are coming out of the Flesh with this rubbish and what a load of Poppycock that we are going to answer to God about not filling some pastors pocket with our hard earned cash, because of guilt! When you used Acts to support your theory about the believers giving all they had…Keep it in context to what it’s saying..were they not under persecution at the time????You don’t understand, I personally believe in being generous as in having mercy on others, giving without anybody noticing as the bible says, Sharing and caring for others..In what you say it sounds like too harsh and judgemental?In fact it sounds very self-righteous, as if your better than others cause you hand over your money and Advertise it. I should add that you’re a giver?? How about that what you’re advertising is that God’s Kingdom will not go further (Where is this mentioned in the bible???) unless man gives cash to cause it to grow??God does not need cash at all…what he wants is for us to go out with nothing but the Gospel and share it with those that have not heard it…Lets get back to the basics, it’s by his Spirit says the Lord not by some pastors Fat bank account??? Jesus told the young rich ruler to give away all his wealth meaning cash i suppose to whom?? The poor not the Church at the time??? he didn’t say give all your cash to me and all the Apostles so that the money can further the kingdom of God..I have to say you only speak out of the Doctrine you know, I am certain that you are sincere in your heart but Gods bigger than that and I’m sure what ever the Scriptures and Prophesies say it will come to pass regardless of how much cash you give? May God bless you and keep you safe in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
joel says
Do not compare your giving to people you do not know.Christians who give to the lord do not brag about it or parade their giving. Try humility it will give you rest from trying so hard to be rich. Some people give 5% and its more money you will ever see in your whole life.
Relax you do not have to bribe God to bless you financialy just have faith in Christ and rest in his finished work.
Billy says
Maybe you read and replied to someone Else’s reply. Here it is again “Many people look for loop holes and reasons not to give. If you have a problem giving to further the kingdom of god here on earth, don’t give. You wont have to answer to anyone but God!!! Please stop trying to justify why you don’t give, because your not convincing me or any other committed man of God. We have a higher standard as believers, just look at the early believers in acts. They gave more than just a tenth, and I do not see early believers justifying why they didn’t give”. I don’t see any comparing or bribing. What I see is obedience in giving!!! Please say what you will, but don’t put words in my mouth.
Jared Brian says
Billy,
who said they are not giving?
– jared
joel says
Try reading the bible for a change, that will help you rather than being spoon fed by those who lie and manipulate the scriptures to line their pockets and call it Gods will.
Read Hebrews 8:4 but then again why try and free a slave when they want to pay for their own freedom.
Billy says
I think you should read the Bible throughout. It seems that you are confused on what grace and mercy really mean. It sure is not a license to do what you want. why are you still trying to convince me? I know what the word says and what it doesn’t say. Just bury your money or use it to gratify your desires. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in all that we have. It all belongs to God anyway or haven’t you figured that out yet?
joel says
Giving in your own strength or twist and lie about scripture to raise money for a pastor or a building program is not giving to God. Madoff in America con people for 140 billon dollars its the same as using scripture to con and lie to get money in church. All the pastors have to do is ask their churches for financial support because God still speaks to his people to give their money. Pastors do not have to lie and use the Mosiac law to raise money. I gave so much money to the local church that the pastor tried to get me in to be one of the elders of the church.
I guess you will never understand where I am coming from unless you have a lot of money.
I am all for giving to support Gods work but if someone uses the tithe to try to con peoples money and not use faith that really annoys me.
God does not want any pastor or teacher to lie and twist scripture to raise funds for him.
Its the same as dealing drugs or running a brothel to support the church.
Billy says
Reminds me of Jesus and the rich young ruler. Your money means absolutely nothing to me. We are not judged according to what we have or don’t have.Its a matter of stewardship, the more we have the more we will have to give account for. I personally attend a Church that “teaches the Bible”. The Pastor of our church is bi-vocational pastor (he has a full time job and a full time ministry serving the Lord). As a matter of fact he chooses not to know what people give.
His view is that our giving is between us and God. He looks at people not based on what they give or don’t give but on the fact that they need Jesus and they need to be obedient to His Word.
We need to understand what 2 Cor. chapter 13 teaches and how it is the heartbeat of God. I give according to my personal convictions and my understanding of the Bible.
I am about fulfilling the great commission found in Matt. 28. This is what is important to me. Blessings
Jared Brian says
Billy, Why would you assume that anyone wants a license to do whatever they want?
– jared
Sam says
Joel I respect people like you who have had a first hand experience with these so called Men of God, you encouraged me when I read your reply, thankyou.
I agree with you, we should be witnessing people giving and sharing with others, however nowadays all I have personally witnessed is these cons trying to convince honest sincere hearted people to give towards their own ambitions ha, as if God needs them to build bigger buildings?Is this all about showing that they’re a success??I think so.
Just recently my son has made a decision to no longer attend the Youth group in which he has been involved with for a number of years, the reasons for this decision are that he felt burnt out and disappointed. I had called his leader for a chat and now I am clear on what had happened and why my son based his decision on…This leader is young and ambitious, he made a couple of comment in which sounded warning bells to me..first he told me that they love their pastor and he comes first?I responded with but i thought we as Christians should put God first??That’s the first Commandment?He went on to say that if someone does not agree with their Model or maybe plan then maybe they shouldn’t be part of their congregation? My son questioned in confidence regarding Tithing and also the pastors plan for extending the building and that everyone should financially support his idea? These people make me sick, if you question them anything to do with their personal agenda then they fire up and label you to be some sort of Demon possessed trouble maker and quickly make things hard for you. This pastor not only runs this particular congregation he also runs 2 others, there is plenty of other pastors in this church however he wants to control it all? Anyhow my point is that these people totally support Tithing and Guilt tripping everyone into giving them financial support because it supports their agendas…They have a bible college in which they go out of their way to try and get kids who are not yet finished secondary school to go to Bible college before doing or thinking about anything else?? Mind you these kids have to cough up $12,000 for the cost?Who’s going to foot this bill, oh that’s right the caring parents, what a joke and plenty of people do it and at the end they end up jobless and with situations of having Pastors in their Church who want to do it all themselves..Please excuse me spelling etc but I am discouraged with all these deceptions, money making schemes and people actually supporting Tithing when in fact it’s not for new Christians???They even go to the point of saying at church now that “If you don’t have cash on you we take CREDIT CARDS”, oh and also we have an eftpos facilities?????????? This makes me sick..I bet somebody who supports this will come out with the usual..We when you go to Mac Donalds don’t you use your eftpos or Credit card…hahah yeah ok, lets do what the World does and run the Church like that..You freaks are nothing but worldly who support this Tithing and Bless debting to God.
Billy says
Please spare me the drama. Please Just keep your money
Billy says
Reminds me of Jesus and the rich young ruler. Your money means absolutely nothing to me. We are not judged according to what we have or don’t have.Its a matter of stewardship, the more we have the more we will have to give account for. I personally attend a Church that “teaches the Bible”. The Pastor of our church is bi-vocational pastor (he has a full time job and a full time ministry serving the Lord). As a matter of fact he chooses not to know what people give.
His view is that our giving is between us and God. He looks at people not based on what they give or don’t give but on the fact that they need Jesus and they need to be obedient to His Word.
We need to understand what 2 Cor. chapter 13 teaches and how it is the heartbeat of God. I give according to my personal convictions and my understanding of the Bible.
I am about fulfilling the great commission found in Matt. 28. This is what is important to me. Blessings
Sam says
Billy you’re money you do what you want, however you’re wrong and as a matter of fact when the hard times come and believe me they are, then we’ll see what money can do? Absolutely nothing at all..Maybe you should consider upping you medication or seeking counselling cause you seem to be so consumed with this Tithing charity thing? By the way are you a Catholic? Just wondering..”Repent and be baptised” but in your case “Pay pennence and be baptised”, another thing is maybe you’re in the Mafia? Pay your way huh? you make me laugh Billy, Frequency of application = Relative Strength..If you hear this Tithing business so often it become quiet strong, so keeping handing it over SUCKER and if you got some left over how bout you send me some too.
Billy says
No I am just a Bible reading, God trusting and truth embracing Christian!!! I would hate to belong to a body of believers that you belong to because I’m sure they are in dire need, your sure not doing your part. You love money and lets just face it your a tight wad.
joel says
Hi,
Jesus warnned his disciple and his followers about the love of money but pastors who run theses churches are teaching christians that its not a problem if christians focus on trying to be rich. They normally teach and defend tithing with all the power that controls the church.
Christians can not afford to just blindly follow any teaching by their pastors and not check the bible if its true. Please consider the apostles in the bible, they gave all to spread the gospel.
All of them left their jobs,business and families to spread the gospel. Not one of them lived in luxury or demanded to be given 10% gross of their followers income or they will be cursed.
Do not be affraid of your so called pastors,he is just another christian. Think about this,if a christian brother or sister wants to borrow some money from you they will ask you and they will tell you when they will repay your money. You know that your christian friend needs the money and you decide to lend them the money because you want to help them plus you trust this person. Now you have a pastors (christian) who needs some money to pay for his bills, he goes and find scriptures like Malachi 3:10,Mathew 23:23,but does not want to quote Deteuronomy 14:22-29 because it says that we eat the tithe.So he decides to preach about tithing to all these christians that he leads (church) that tithe Or 10% percent of their gross income belongs to God (him) and christians need to put God first (his bills,holiday,car,luxury house,jewllery,plane and his office and staff first)
Please if the bible teaches about self denial can anyone tell me why JESUS said WE CANT BOTH SERVE GOD AND MONEY. Here is a scripture that will open your eyes (Holy Spirit wrote it)…….. 1 Timothy 6:4-6 AMP…………
If you still dont get it then you need deliverance from the lies that satan is selling to believers
Have a peaceful day
Billy says
all that to say what? your a cheapskate?
Sam says
Again Joel you have delivered the truth and may God bless you and your family with real wealth which is coming when we meet with him, absolutely spot on. I have read the scripture you posted many times over and over and my friend I can assure you that these people are coming out of a different spirit, you’re right that who ever does not get this is in need of being delivered from that corrupt way of thinking. I am really over it Joel that these people are poisioning others with their Greed Doctrine, peace be to be brother and again I feel encouraged with your words, I have no doubt that the Lord is with us on this, bless you.
Billy says
wow two people needing deliverance from mammon. a real tag team of ignorance.
Sam says
Bill it’s no drama you were taken down very swiftly by Joels comments my friend you know nothing and you will be standing accountable for your twisted Doctrine, may God have mercy on you.
Billy says
I listen to God through His Word, not Sam the want to be answer man!!!
Billy says
Help me to understand how the Church is to be supported? I really don’t understand what you are trying to prove? Do we give to God or not? What doctrine are you talking about? Do I need Gods mercy because I am a cheerful giver? and because I want to bring glory to God in all that I do? Wow, am I dealing with born again believers or selfish judging manipulators?
joel says
Thank you Sam,
Be encouraged do not give up. Jesus said many will come to him and say did we not perform miracles and raised the dead in your name we cast out demons.
Jesus said in Mathew 7:21, I quote ” Not everyone that said to me Lord,Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven” and verse 22 talks about annointed pastors,evangelist,prophets and teachers in other words christians. Its very scary if you ask me.
May Gods Grace Rest on you.
Billy says
I’m going to cry, Help me to teach about the doctrine of “I dont want to give because I love money too much”.
jackie says
Billy, I think its not about not wanting to give money but about being manipulated and lied to by pastors who covets christians money. Thou shall not covet thy neighbours 10% of his income, wife,house,job,savings etc..
Billy says
Please understand that I see a higher responsibility in the Word to us as believers in every area of our life. The bible teaches us to be doers of the word, it also teaches us to be cheerful givers. The bible is also real clear that we will reap what we sow. How can we reap if nothing is sown? That is talking about in every area of our life. Giving is a small part of living Christ like. Please don’t confuse what the message here is. ” the Bible is clear that we are to obey God in every area of his word”, If that makes me bad or manipulative than I guess Jesus was too according to you!
Sam says
Bill you seem to be getting quiet angry, do you also practice “Do not let the Sun go down”, I pray that you come to know the Lord in a clearer way, hopefully the scales will be removed from your eyes so that you can see. Joel is absolutely correct in what Jesus preached on the Mount regarding…in those days they will come to me and say but Lord Lord etc… Notice something really interesting here in this passage, these Christians practiced all the gifts? A lot of Christian Churches (Main-line) do not and are careful to use these gifts, however what I am getting at is the fact that these so called Spirit Filled Christians whom I would presume are Tithers as well Jesus tells them to get away from him cause he does not know them??? I am not adding in the Tithing to this passage but most of these new age Churches who practice Tongues, Prophesies and so on also practice Tithing? So I would say that these Super Sperios that we call them maybe very well be whom Jesus was talking about??? What do you think Billy the Kid.
joel says
Hi,
Billy is not angry he just been in a bad mood for a long time and wants to defend his pastors doctrine plus material possesions. I thought about this tithing doctrine as
” Love thy neighbour as yourself espeacially his money”
Its so sad to see christians being deceived and are so proud that they hold on to their creedy pastors false teaching for the hope of being rich one day.
Billy if you are paying your tithe to stop God from cursing you, how much does your pastor charge for healing, favour, peace,and going to Heaven ?…. lol
For the first 100 callers will get a group discount of $99.95 with a 1 month refund guarantee and eftpos, credit card facility is available .Ring now or you will miss out few tickets for SUCKERS LEFT!!!
Billy says
I think that we are losing something in translation. I serve the Lord with all my Heart, all my soul, all my mind and all my strength. If that makes me a super hero than thats fine. I only hope to convey that we are responsible to God for all our actions. What I give to the Lord is between my Him. I realize that everything I have is His and that I am merely a Stuart, hopefully a good one. Is the bible new age to you? Is acts chapter 2 new age? I would be very careful about what you Judge. If you want to refute my convictions thats fine but dont speak against the word of God. God will not be mocked, we will reap what we sow, I am pointing more fingers at myself but dont make this an arena of mockery.
don’t judge others for wanting to give all that they have to serve the Lord.
Sam says
Hahahahaha Joel that was so funny man, we were laughing so hard…but you know it’s so true these guys are so committed to these Cults and would do anything to gain acceptance by those Morons who think nothing of the fact that God is an all seeing and hearing God…I just recently went to a service where the groupies all sit up the very front and everything the Pastors says they come back with “WOW” and this “WOW” never stops until the preaching stops, it made me sick and laugh at the same time cause whilst they were WOWING the Pastor said something that didn’t deserve the WOW and they just looked so Stupid. Joel I was watching something on the TV Evangelists in America like the Creflo Dollar,Benny Hinn,Kenneth Copeland and the likes, did you know that Creflo is apparently worth 900 Million Dollars US?? Kenneth Copeland apparently gave Creflo $1000000 as a gift?Poor guy must be starving….And now Billy sits there in judgement because we won’t be taken for a ride by freaks like this, you gotta be joking Bill! My attitude is not that I want to hold onto my money it’s the fact that I have a Family to support (3 Children), pay bills and generally have very little left??You don’t know me Bill and certainly don’t understand what I give and to whom, so I will never ever give to one of these freaks that you support because they are of the flesh and they are no different to criminals.The bible is clear as Brother Joel has passed onto you a scripture 1 Timothy 6:4-6 AMP in which says it all about what we are discussing. You persist to support another type of Scripture in which has been manipulated with clever Psychology and convincing at that, that is to the Flesh of course. You ever heard that song bill it reminds me of you…Billy don’t be a hero, Don’t be a fool with your life lol.
Billy says
I sense a lot of anger here. I read and follow a bible that teaches us to love one another. As brothers in Christ we are to encourage one another not to judge. Maybe I too have fallen into a wrong led motive to try to prove something that I believe in, and for that I apologize. My intention is to merely share my convictions, I dont want this to be a public spectacle that would lead to a misrepresentation of the Gospel. I really do not care about what you do weather you give or not, that should be between you and God. I choose, and I repeat I choose to honor God in all I do, if my convictions lead me to giving all that I have to God why should that bother you? I am not trying to get anybody to follow my convictions I am only sharing them. Giving of myself is so much more important than anything else I give! Hopefully you will understand that I love the Lord and His sheep. May God bless you richly.
joel says
Sam, you forgot one thing there are lots of super heros in the comic pretend world we have Super man,Spider man,Con man and lest not forget our hero Billy the Tithing Man.
Check out what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 8:12 NLT,AMP about giving to the church. Before he was saved he used to kill christians because of the Mosiac Law that Billy wants to keep
Have a good weekend
Billy says
Maybe we can come to to agreements here. I definitely do not want to continue in division. If you are a brother in Christ and I will assume you are, then we need not continue to publicly bash one another. I again am sorry and ask forgiveness for acting in an un Christlike manner. we can agree to disagree. I am a Born again believer whose name is written in the Lambs book of life. I will have to answer to God someday for all that I do, all that I say and all that I think. For the record, what you give is between you and the Lord period. If i choose to give to the Lord (not any specific number) you should be glad for me.
If not giving settles well with you than so be it, I will be glad for you. Lets represent Christ to the world and continue to keep Him first. May God continue to bless you richly!!!
Sam says
Hi Billy, I forgive and god Bless you and your family, I don’t think that there’s any harm in us talking and discussing this issue with Tithing. I think when it comes to Jesus Christ is Lord we would all agree as one and the rest of it well we’ll have to agree to disagree or continue discussion, no harm felt Billy and at the end of the day as it says in Acts we are all called on to a ministry of reconciliation, God Bless you.
joel says
Hi, Read (1 Timothy 6:5 NLT) that will explain everything please do not treat Apostle Pauls teaching with contempt. The Holy Spirit wrote those letters using Paul and put it in the bible for us.
Grace and Peace to you all