The Barna Group just released some new statistics on tithing and donations for 2007. – here. Interestingly enough George Barna takes a stand against tithing as a legitimate practice in the New Testament Church. This is all kind of exciting to me, because I’m in the middle of reading the book, “Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola and George Barna. I am about two-thirds of the way through and I can’t seem to put the book down. I will write a post about that when i’m finished it, but I just mentioned it because I had just finished up the chapter on “tithing”. Ironic. . . i guess.
I just want to highlight some things that were said:
“Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money.”
I would like to point out that greed is not biased to non-tithers. I’ve heard many times that Tithing is an antidote for greed. The reason why tithing does not overcome greed is that tithing is not the master of greed. A pure heart, that is undefiled and led by the Spirit of God is the master of greed. Tithing has no power over sin, but the Spirit does. This is confirmed because although Israel had tithing completely spelled out for them, they still had to overcome their greedy hearts. Also regardless of whether our giving is plainly spelled out for us through tithing or is an unpredictable factor through spirit-led giving, we still have to listen and obey. In other words, just because how much we should give is written in black and white compared to Spirit-led giving, which is not; we still have to put down our selfishness and obey one or the other.
“Strangely, tithing is a Jewish practice, not a Christian principle espoused in the New Testament. The idea of a tithe – which literally means one-tenth or the tenth part – originated as the tax that Israelites paid from the produce of the land to support the priestly tribe (the Levites), to fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. The ministry of Jesus Christ, however, brought an end to adherence to many of the ceremonial codes that were fundamental to the Jewish faith. Tithing was such a casualty. Since the first-century, Christians have believed in generous giving, but have not been under any obligation to contribute a specific percentage of their income.”
Many people are blinded to the point where they view tithing as a “principle” not a “practice”. George Barna said it right, “tithing is a Jewish practice, not a Christian principle”. There are 2 practices that come to mind when thinking about the Church. One, Baptism, and Two, the Lord’s Supper. Tithing is not one of them, nor is it a principle. I’ve said this so many times- tithing is a standard, not a principle. In the old testament, we see Abraham as the first person recorded to tithe. But we are not commanded to follow Abraham’s actions, we are commanded to follow his faith.
Barna also mentions the 3 functions of the tithe. Support the Levites, fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. At this point I see the Church doing a good job of fulfilling one out of three of those tasks. That’s if you want to equate support of the levites with support of those who are ministering. If we were busy trying to build God’s kingdom instead of our own kingdom, I think we would be doing a much better job with fulfilling the other functions of the tithe (not that I want the tithe and all its purposes incorporated into the Church). Just hypothetically speaking.
During the first five years of the decade, an average of 84 cents out of every dollar donated by born again adults went to churches. In the past three years, though, the proportion has declined to just 76 cents out of every donated dollar.
I find this statistic very, very interesting indeed. This is saying that for the first five years since 2000 that of all the donations given, 84% of them were given to Church organizations, but since the past three years, only 76% of the total donations had been given to Church organizations. So people have been giving 8% less to their churches and giving it to some other organization. I don’t know, to me, that is a big jump. Think about it this way, imagine if 8 out of 100 people stopped giving the money to their church and instead gave it to the Red Cross. Hmmm, very interesting. Maybe a little wake up call for our greedy Church budgets. You can read more about my thoughts on the house church movement and its effect on Church budgets
“If this transition in the perceptions and giving behavior of born again adults continues to accelerate, the service functions of conventional churches will be redefined within the next eight to ten years, and conventional churches will have to adopt new ways of assisting people in need.”
That was a part of Barna’s interpretation of what the statistics are telling him. And I agree.
What are your thoughts on the new tithing statistics and trends? Do you think Barna is on target with his analysis? Do you think this blog is on target?
Hi Joel,
What can I say you are reinforcing everything I have read and confirming to me that where I am is correct with what we have been discussing, thankyou for that and I appreciate the fact that you are quoting scripture as it is and it’s clear regarding the question about riches in this life. As a matter of fact if people that are believers want more in the way of wants then go out and work harder to earn more? lets not give the 10% and expect to a tax return back? i think that’s not giving at all that’s actually gambling and in fact I have witnessed so many people come and go because it all seems to much or a rort, they come into the congregation and the minutes these prosperity follows speak up the new people simply leave with a bad attitude towards Church, the one’s that remain think that this is another good opportunity to maybe cash in because of all the crappy stories…It’s like the old approach ..”Come to Jesus and he will make your live wonderful” blah blah blah..Jesus said to die to ourselves daily and pick up our cross daily..It’s not about us and our flash homes,cars and other materialistic wants and likes? So why promote these fleshy things, I can tell you why because IT APPEALS TO THE FLESH AND THIS IS WHAT THE WORLD LIKES, Why wouldn’t Satan inject this way of thinking?? Read the Bible people and Joel thankyou so much for your Honesty and speaking the truth, God bless you brother, we need more preachers and teachers like you. In this life we do need cash and that we earn by working for it, I for refuse to hand it over to a Prosperity Preacher who as far as i’m concerned picks out scripture to fool the Gullible, The get up and preach a watered down message that appeals to the flesh most of all and then want to be called and seen as a success, most of the time these Pastors don’t even have the time for most of the people in their congregation because they’re to busy trying to scheme another money making machine.
Thank you Sam,
If you live in Sydney, I just found a church near Penrith they do not ask for tithes and they inform their followers that tithing was only for the Jews in the old covenant. The church is called “The Church of the Rock Sydney”they have a website I went for the first time yesterday.
I highly recomend this church to anyone looking for a church in Sydney. The pastor and the leaders truly fear God and the teaching is very powerful.
I hope to see you there
Galatians 5:4
“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace”.
Acts 13:39 “And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things from which you could not be freed through the law of Moses”
Twisted Scriptures
Abraham paid tithes as in plural. No it was actually a one time voluntarily tithe to Melchizedek.
(Abraham was also circumcised before the law which God actually commanded unlike the tithe he gave).
Matthew 23:23 Jesus said to tithe even though he placed it on a lower priority.
(Jesus did say to tithe to the Pharisees but note that they were still under the law, he had not yet died or said Paid in full)
I think you better believe the word of God over man’s philosophies. That book is poison and so is George Barna. He has gotten himself involved with the wrong people and has bought into a lie of theology and methodology. The tithe predated the law and postdated the law with Jesus Himself dealing with the issue of tithe in Matthew and Luke with the Pharisees. He wasn’t telling them to do away with the worship of tithing, he was telling them that there was more to it like having grace and mercy on others. Not just doing your duty of giving but understanding that giving was more than just the tithe. I read that book and it is nothing but a self serving agenda for the so called “home church” movement.
Dave,
I didn’t realize that Jesus fulfilled the law while he was still alive? I guess that whole dying on the cross thing later on was just for show.
-jared
A good Amen to that Brother!!! Your absolutely right, The scriptures are very clear about giving unto the Lord. I cant believe how anybody can come to the conclusion that we are no longer called by god to be good Stewards of what He has entrusted us to. If people don’t want to give to the work of the Lord they should not try to poison those who do.
Dean,
I’m confused. Did somebody say stop giving, or that we are not stewards?
Steward,
Unfortunately there are lots of people confused about giving unto the Lord. Many are just confused about grace as if it is a license to do what ever we want, which includes the area of giving.
Billy,
I would agree.
Hi Dave,
I do not know wether you tithe or not but I want you to know if I tithe then I will have to reduce my giving. Tithing is a law that was given exclusively to Nation of Israel by God through Moses. Its not open for personal interpretation or suggestions as some christians sadly belive God allows them to change His laws to suit them for financial advantage.
Like any Mosaic law we are not allowed by God to change it or we will suffer the consequences.
It is very foolish to even consider changing even one minute detail of the law . THE BIBLE TEACHES that tithing is not only a law but it was only food and animals grown and raised within the gates of Israel. In the time of Moses NO ONE was allowed to change any of the law God gave Moses. What makes you think we are allowed to change it now.Jesus did not change the Mosaic law He cancelled it with a better covenant .
If any christian wants to go back and practise the law of tithing they need to practise all the Mosaic law not just tithing. Galatian 3:10 Paul clearly says it we need to keep all the law of Moses and we will put ouselves under the curse of the law again. That means Jesus blood is not good enough to bring us closer to God we need to practise sin offerings,burnt offerings,tithing,sabbath,killing adultrous people, use the blood of animals for sin offerings.
I hope you can see how rude, evil,disgusting,arrogant,inconsiderate of any christian to treat what Jesus death and sacrifice as something insignificant and common that we have to go back and practise the Mosaic law again. Please I find all these people who twist the scriptures to raise money to give their pastors a life of luxry and excess as offensive and rude.
Right on Joel, totally agree with you 1 million percent…We have liberty through Christ and are no longer bound up…I wonder if the Tithers are any relation to the Muslims who also practice Stoning people to death..i know that’s of track a bit but I’m over these ppl who just wanna make a buck. Enjoy the few years of fame and fortune guys cause you can’t take it with you where you’re going, bless you Joel once again you tell it how it is, on ya bro.
in the homes of Believers that’s where the Church started, not building funds to construct mega sanctuary that leads people to slaves to the lender.
Hi Dave,
I am confused as to whether you agree with the Tithing or not? let us know if you’re either there or not.
Greetings,
we are now under a new covenant , behold the new has come. i think that people still teaching tithing are out there after money to enjoy the pleasures of this life.
Concerned,
Alex Motlatle – Tafelkop
Alex, I think your making a grave assumption. Forget about the word tithe and lets just talk about giving to be apart of building gods kingdom. How do we do that? if your answer is anything other than giving you are missing a very important attribute of God. God (Jesus) was the best example of giving. He gave it all and continues to give of himself today. Don’t be fooled, the law of sowing and reaping is still in operation today. There will be no greedy people in heaven!!!
Dean , i strongly think that tithers are driven by the excessive desire to have more after being misled and 2Corinthians 9:7 says …for God loveth a cheerful giver ‘ i do give to Churches but as i have purposed in my heart not grudgingly or of necessity. A man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in JESUS CHRIST.
Alex, But what does the Word of God say about faith without works? I personally give to God more than any specified amount, I am sharing that only because we are discussing the matter. We do have a responsibility of being good stewards of all that God gives us (including our finances). We are no longer bound to the Law but I don’t read any where that gives us a license to sin or disobey Gods commands. the Law was good in that is showed us that we were sinners and that we needed a Savior! Grace and mercy provide us an avenue to do whats right and allows us to be Christlike. The goal here in life is no longer living for oneself but it is the privilege of allowing Christ to live through us at every capacity.
Before we get too lost here, you cannot build a Biblical principle on a single verse of scripture. You have to take the Bible as a whole to apply it’s principles. In this case, if you continue to study scripture thoroughly, you will come to the conclusion that the entirety of the New Testament is built upon the entirety of the Old Testament. And this means the foundation of the church is rooted and grounded in the Jewish culture whether we want that to be the truth or not – it is. And again, if you review the teachings of Christ, you will clearly see He taught on money or related items at least as much as if not more than any other topic. Why? Because He understands man – He knows that our giving flows out of our hearts. The first problem the majority of church-attenders have is that they don’t buy into the principle that 100% of everything (money, time, talents, whatever) is all God’s to begin with! What God/Jesus is asking us to do is to give specifically to His purposes so that His kingdom is furthered – with our money, our time, our talents, and our other resources. You may say – I give 10% of my money to my church – what about 10% of your time – what about 10% of your other stuff? I’m not talking about communism or communal-ism here, I’m talking about your heart. Are you willing to serve Him every day? What if your church had a need to clean toilets and the maintenance person asked you – would you do it? Would you clean toilets to serve the Lord? It’s not just about our money – Jesus was saying it’s about our heart!!!!! And do you serve willingly, or with a grouchy attitude? It’s the same with money – do you give willingly? Or do you feel “guilted” into giving. News flash – God doesn’t need your money!!!! He owns this place – he owns everything you see and everything you don’t. He doesn’t need us to – He asks us to. And until we (in specific), and the church (in general) get that principle, we’ll never be tithers, or forget tithing for a minute – we’ll never be givers, period. Money isn’t wrong – it’s the attitude about the money that is the problem. Jesus said as much in His teachings. God loves a cheerful giver!
Now, lest you think I’m a prosperity theology person – I hate it! It’s my biggest pet peeve in the global church – pastors teaching that the more you give, the more you are blessed – name it and claim it theology. Well, my Bible doesn’t teach that! My Bible teaches me that the Lord gives to those whom He chooses – he can cause it to rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. So for me, it’s a matter of my heart – am I willing to give because Jesus has said that doing unto the least of these, is like giving to me. Who is the least of these? You have to decide that for yourself. But I would offer up for thoughtful consideration that the church is a bunch of walking wounded. To borrow a line from a live concert I once heard, Jesus is not a crutch. Jesus is a stretcher – because you cannot even limp in to heaven without Jesus! So I would offer up that we are the least of these. We are the ones that when we serve, we are serving Christ – in that context, giving to support the local church enables those resources to be pooled, and more effectively used because the local church should know the needs of the local community. And the way to bring people into the family of God is to meet the needs where you are (in addition to around the world…)
So there is nothing un-biblical about tithing. In fact, I would suggest that tithing is a natural outpouring of our right relationship with the Lord. He leads us to give and we do. The thing that I will never figure out (and don’t necessarily want to) is how do my bills all get paid every month when by tithing, I would take away money that is need to pay those same bills? It’s a mystery God chooses to work out in my life and in the lives of many a Christian every day. And I see it around me – people who don’t tithe even though they call themselves Christians struggle financially. I have no explanation. Neither do I have an answer. But I do know one thing – tithing is an essential practice in the Christian life, and should be a part of the church and anything less seems to fall short of the potential blessings God wants to give.
Edge, that was very well put!!! I am encouraged to see other brothers in Christ proclaiming Truth. You said it well, that giving is a condition of the heart. Jesus does tell us that where our heart is there our treasure will be also. The enemy really tries to put a strangle hold on people, especially in the way of giving. I ask God to make me whole in every area of my walk with Christ. Keep on fighting the good fight!
In Christ,
Dean
Dean,
i can give you loads of examples of those who tithe and are in financial ruins. I could also give you loads of examples of those who don’t tithe and are in financial success. What say ye?
– jared
Jared,
Whats your point? That you know loads of people? The Word says it rains on the just as well as the unjust! obedience isn’t always a recipe for success in this life, but it is for the eternity to come with YESHUA HaMASHIACH. God is sovereign in all His ways. I would rather be obedient in tithing and be in financial ruin than to disobey God and be financially successful heading into eternal separation. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.
Billy
Billy,
Don’t get smart. My point is the same as you; it rains on the just and unjust. so let’s not use who it rains on as proof in the pudding.
– jared
Steward,
No pun intended. You are right I too know plenty of people that are faithful in giving but yet struggle financially. Even though they struggle though, God does meet all their needs. Forgive me for all the sarcasm. May God continue to bless you as you surrender to Him!
Billy
I am a pastor, and I receive my income from the preaching/teaching of the gospel (not bi-vocational). I stumbled across this blog in my internet search for Barna’s research about tithing in America.
I am not much of a blogger, and to the best of my memory, this is the first blog I have ever given input to. That said, reading these comments grieved my heart, and I believe grieves the Holy Spirit.
I appreciate what Barna is saying, in the sense of teaching believers to live above the law in their giving. That said, he is missing a key principle in Scripture.
God’s methodology in Scripture to bring prosperity (this is not an evil word – it was taught and practiced from Genesis to Revelation) through the faith of his selected leaders. He used such men as Abraham, Moses, David, Jehoshaphat, Jesus, Paul, etc to do so. A key method that He used was the tithe.
Admittedly, the principle was more clear in the O.T. It was before the law in Abraham (Gen 14, 28:22ff), in the law in Moses (Lev 27:30, Num 18:21ff, Deut 26 :11ff), in the restoration of Israel (2 Chron 17:8-9, Neh 10:35ff, 12:44ff), and in the dispersion of Israel (Mal 3:10-12). In each case, the tithe is associated with either a promise of prosperity or a story of prosperity that followed.
Jesus continued the principle of the tithe (Matt 23:23, Lk 11:42), though he condemned the hypocrisy of selfish living in the teachers of it in His day (comment I hear many of you mentioning about selfish pastors and churches).
Paul, though he did not use the word tithe, taught the principle that the Philippians and Corinthians prosperity would come through their giving into his ministry and the Spirit-led cause he was in (2 Cor 9:6-15, Phil 4:10-20).
It is true that the church in America is weak, anemic, and in many cases full of sin. We have prosperity preachers who preach prosperity, but are privately living immoral lives. Much of the church in America is loaded down with sin because it’s leaders do not take a stand against sin, being more concerned about the size of their congregation than the good and prosperity of it’s people. That said, to throw out the baby with the bathwater is never the right answer. This is what I hear many of you doing in this blog.
God’s people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. The answer to our American church problems is not to denigrate the tithe, but to allow ourselves to be used of God to bring discipline in His people so that they can be delivered from their sin. When God’s people are living free from sin and practicing the tithe and the offering, prosperity is the godly result.
Love in Christ,
Ben
Ben,
Thanks for you comments, and i agree with the heart of what you are saying, but i think there is some misconception about the tithe. Tithing was only required in Israel for those who raised animals or crops. This means that carpenters, bankers, lawyers, doctors, etc. did not tithe a single mite from their occupational income. This would raise some questions about how tithing should be attached to prosperity.
There is no doubt that reaping generosity is an eternal principle when you sow generosity, but the promise of blessing through tithing was actually introduced during the law. Abraham’s, promise of blessing came without a condition to tithe.
If giving 10% was a principle that transcends the old and new covenants in the Bible, then why would a true principle apply to only how our possessions are effected? What about our time and talents? I have trouble calling anything a principle when its practice is applied to a single area in our life. Can we do the same with the principles of love or joy? The frequency of any law in the bible does not make anything a principle.
– jared
Well said Steward, when conviction hits these people they come in and make comments to justify their actions however they forget that God’s word is God’s word and no matter what they think is right about this Tithing, God’s word is his word and not theirs to twist and shape to their own desire. Look Tithing has been a major issue more so than any other that I have experienced in my 18 years or so, all it causes is suspicion, doubt and guilt including many other negative things that I will not mention. I have seen more people walk away from Church and Christianity than any of the other issues that arose, When I had attended these prosperity Churches and witnessed how much these preachers go on and on about Tithing and giving to their cause it made me absolutely sick to the stomach, it sounds like such a con, deceptive and self-seeking worldly greed, I have witnessed people who were struggling in their every day living pledging cash to so many of these so called “Gods Working Ministries” and today they are no better of than they were years ago? It does not take money to Share the Good News, in fact it will be interesting when the time comes when there will be no cash at all but a new financial system which will be electronic and then we will see how these preachers perform, the Government’s will keep track of the Millions of dollars that all the naive people give to these ministries such as the Televangelists? These people say God wants you to prosper and yet they are the only one’s that do, and mind you they show it of by driving around in Limo’s and flying around in their own private jets etc , living in mansions and you Tithing believers want me to support your belief and feel guilty that I’m of track with the word of God? I don’t think so, You have receive your rewards in full, What we bring into this world we also take out when we die? Since when did God rely on what man gives to fulfill his word here on Earth. Since when, the Tithing and prosperity rubbish started not so long ago by a bunch of opportunists who saw what their greedy little wanted to see and they made it into a business..Pity them and their followers on the day of Judgement, oh and before someone comments on this please give me scripture which is in BLACK and WHITE not what you interpret to be correct, keep your Doctrine out of it. In the name of Christ our Lord.
Sam, I think your missing Stewards point. He is not disagreeing with Pastor Ben, nor am I. The point is that there are equally important issues that parallel giving. though we are not under the Law, Gods plan in his Salvation is not for us to disregard it. Jesus said that if we serve the Lord with all our heart, strength and mind and that we love each other as our selves. We would fulfill the other Commands. I dont see any license to sin or disobey Gods Laws. It seems that your stuck on the tithe issue. Do what you are going to do but please dont think that you are Gods messenger to get people to stop tithing. The enemy could be using you, and you might not even realize it!
In Christ, Dean
Dean,
Don’t get me wrong. I disagree that tithing is required. I also believe that my first goal is to stop people from tithing before i can get them to see greater principles of giving.
-jared
Dean the enemy is using you i think and I don’t profess to know it all but in my Spirit I know 110% that this Tithing that you and all your Cronies defend and support so much is nothing but evil and self seeking, if you want to remain bound up than go for it. Just the comments you have made confirm to me and reinforce that attitude that Tithers have and that is they think that they are above those that do not Practice that Law. People like you should humble yourselves and repent, I serve the Lord Jesus Christ and he is my Lord and Saviour..I don’t care about giving as when i do that is between me and the Lord, who are you to judge me..The Lord Rebuke you…Stop feeding the Flesh Dean as it will die and you will have no crowns awaiting you in Heaven, use your gifts for other things and stop promoting something that was meant for the Jews..Jesus Christ is Lord and that is what we have to deliver to people out there rather than playing the Super Spiro game and going on about absolute Lies with the Prosperity Junk..Why would God need your money Dean? Answer me this, if I don’t ever Tithe will the result be a rejection???? may God have mercy on you Dean.
A critical error in people’s thinking is to miss the link between Genesis 14 and Genesis 15. In Gen 14, Abram had returned from a victory in war against the armies that conquered Sodom and took his nephew Lot. He meets with Melchizedek, and gives him a tithe of all. Melchizedek is king of Salem, or King of peace. After tithing, Abram had the wisdom to give all of Sodom’s goods back to them, minus the cost of the war. The result was that Abram lived at peace, the blessing of tithing to the King of peace.
What follows is Gen 15. Did Gen 15 happen in a vacuum? No. It says, “After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram…” After these things was the tithe.
Gen 15 is the key to the whole new covenant. God appeared to Abram and said, “I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.” If you see this in connection to the story, it is simple. The Lord is saying to Abram, “You can’t out-give Me. I will reward you for your tithe and for your free generosity of giving Sodom back their wealth for the sake of peace (offering).”
Gen 15:6 is the foundation of the whole New Testament revelation: “And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.” This was Paul’s foundation for his theology, and what Jesus taught as well.
Please do not allow the added chapter numbers to distort your view of the Abrahamic story. The tithe is the key foundation to the whole New Testament revelation. To miss it is to miss God’s best through the New Testament revelation that He has given His children in Christ.
I agree 100% Pastor Ben, I hope you had a wonderful and blessed service today! We had a great and blessed service as we do always. Our Pastor is great, he teaches the Word of God and lets us know the truth! Even in the area of tithing. We cant afford not to tithe, its better to have 90% of blessed Finances than 100% of cursed Finances. Jesus was and is always giving (of everything), Christ likeness does the same. God does not withhold anything from us, why should we withhold anything from him.
Billy
Ben,
I don’t like to go off on individuals, but with what you just said, i have to. Your line of thinking is just plain deceiving. Are you kidding? Where do you get the idea that tithing is the ‘key foundation’ to the whole new testament revelation?
At this point, i don’t care about the fact that i don’t believe in tithing, because what you are saying is black smoke hidden in a white robe. People were sacrificing spotless lambs, (the epitome of the coming messiah), and yet you concoct some sort of fairy tale that makes tithing more valuable than the picture of spotless, sacrificial lambs. Are you sacrificing lambs?
Do you enforce circumcision? If i can recall correctly, Genesis 17:11 states, “and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.”. Psshh! and you somehow make tithing the key to the new covenant?
-jared
Ben, Are you aware that God gave the Israelites laws through Moses that were so hard that Apostle Paul in Galatian said that it enslaved them. The law included instructions to kill any of those who disobeyed it. To keep those laws the Jews were commanded to kill people who broke the laws God gave without questioning God.
Paul killed christians because of the Mosaic law before He met Jesus on the road to Damascus. We can not change one single part of the Mosaic law not before Jesus or after his resurrection . To teach and promote any changes with the law God gave the Jews in the Old Testament is not only foolish but deceptive and very dangerous.
Please read and study the old testament before you promote any changes in the law that is not of God but man made. Tithing is a Law that was given exclusively by God to the Jews and it was food and livestock raised within the gates of Israel. Deuteronomy 14:22-29
Joel man it’s so good to hear from you again, I so much agree with you and everything you are saying here again to these people. You’ve obviously done what they should have done and that is to studying up for yourself the scriptures and tell them as it is, I personally feel in my spirit that I 100% trust in what you’re saying and yes I have such a problem with this Tithing business and how these guys try and present it as the truth. Great to hear from you brother and I look forward to reading more of what you are sharing, keep it up LOVE IT, May God Bless you and your family Joel in Christ Jesus.
read & understand Hebrews 7.
Jesus never ask for money. its not what you say or do that make you righteous in GOD sight, its the Blood of JESUS. JESUS overturned the table in the temple but not the tax collector’s table because they were making His Father’s House a den of thieves
Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law,
11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.[a] 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For He testifies:[b]
“ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”[c]
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is thebringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
I appreciate the feedback. In simplicity, when we tithe and give Spirit-led offerings, God’s promise is to do more with the the 90% or 80% or whatever percent He leaves in our care, than we could do with 100%. This is how He blesses His children. Tithing and giving offerings requires that we trust the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God to work behind the scenes on our behalf for the advancement of the gospel and the prosperity of His children. He if faithful to do so, and to reveal His word, as we will stay open to His leading.
Since the birthing of the first church in the book of acts we see sacrificial giving.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Note that the offering was set aside on the first day of the week. When we are willing to offer the first portion of our wealth back to him, then God knows he has our hearts. He knows—and we also know—that we are submitted completely in trust and obedience to our Lord and Savior.
We are blessed when we give. Acts 20:35
… remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’
God wants us to give because he knows how blessed we will be as we give generously to him and to others. Giving is a kingdom principle; giving brings even more blessing to the giver than to the recipient.
When we give freely to God, we receive freely from God.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Now that we are under the dispensation of Grace, we have a bigger responsibility in giving. That I believe cannot be contained in any specified number, however we can use the tithe as a starting point but really that will be exceeded when we live Christlike. Lets not allow selfishness to stifle the building of Gods kingdom here on this earth. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven!!!
Billy, Its good to see you promote giving and supporting Gods work but please stop promoting this money tithing lie is not of God. Give your money but please stop twisting and lying about scripture. Can you promote resting on the second or fith day as sabbath ? What makes you think you can change food tithes into money tithes ? The bible says food tithes grown and animals raised within the gates of Israel .STOP THIS NONSENSE AND DECEPTION.
I agree Joel, Billy stop trying to justify yourself so much and i thought you would have learned by now that you’re so much of track it’s not funny any more Billy, you need to go back to look again and this time pray and instead of asking for financial blessings ask for guidance lol.
It seems like it is nonsense only to those who choose to believe contrary to Gods word! If anybody needs to stop anything, that anybody would be you and your echo Sam. Why do you think people tithed of food, animals and so on? Because that’s all they had. What gives you the right to deceive and promote a theology not found in the Word of God. I cannot find anywhere in the Word that discourages others to support the work of the Lord! The word tithe has a stranglehold on you. Its because of you that (christian) churches around the world are having to close down. You will stand before God and have to give an account to him for trying to discourage His people from supporting His work. The best word for people like you would be REPENT!!!
The Churches around the world are PEOPLE who believe in JESUS as the son of GOD who died on the cross for you & me, not buildings made by human hands finance by money printed on machines made by human hands.
Moses told Pharaoh “let my people go” those who share the GOOD NEWS free of charge vs the HUCKSTERS of this world who only do it for pay ” if you don’t get paid for it, would still do it” most who love or need to received Tithes would not think twice about doing something else to make a buck
JESUS will judge not what you did but why did you do it.
if spread the WORD because you wanted a salary you already received your reward
Paul denied himself because he did not want to hinder the GOSPEL of CHRIST
LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU THAT WAS IN CHRIST JESUS
John,
Paul also thanked the church at philippi for their support to him when he needed it. Are you living in the stone age or something? you need money to survive period, it doesn’t matter what you do. What the church in the world that are people mean that money is not needed? Don’t try to use your excuses for not giving and some how justify your actions with motive. I give some of everything I have to God because everything is His ( My money, my life, my time, my worship & my obedience). God is a giving God, If your not then something is wrong!
Billy
Dear Billy, I think most Born again Christians do not have a problem with giving to further spreading the GOSPEL of CHRIST but are discourage to hear they must keep this outdated part of the Mosaic Law being taught by people like you, weather out of ignorance or love of money it still adds up to be the same= WRONG teaching.
JESUS had conflicts with religious leaders when he walk this earth because they put emphasis on the commandments of men instead of the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, so I don’t mind having conflicts as my LORD & SAVIOR CHRIST JESUS did.
PS, you can find the UPDATED COVENANT in the Book of Hebrews chapter 7 & chapter 8
Hahahaha yeah ok Dean, in the Book of Dean it says everything that you said, you need to repent my friend cause what you say is so wrong, I never ask or have asked people to stop giving but Tithing i will go out of my way to assist people to come out of that bondage, if you want to continue bringing people under the Law then you will stand before the Lord and be accountable Dean…So wake up
You sound like a little Baby Sam. How old are you? Have you ever Been used by God in any Ministry besides running your Mouth?
It seems there is a lot concern about tithing being connected to the law. The law was added because of transgression in God’s covenant people, but the principle of the tithe is connected to God’s covenant ways even before the law.
When Jacob fled from Esau, he met the manifestation of God in a dream at Bethel. There he responded to God’s manifestation with a covenant promise: “If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall by my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tithe/tenth to You.” (Gen 28:20-22)
Jacob understood the covenant that Abraham and Isaac had with God, and how God had blessed them in that covenant. Now that he was desperate, he wanted to participate in that covenant as well. He knew the way to participate was to tithe.
Tithing is a simple acknowledgment and expression that God is the greater, and we are the lesser. The lesser keeps covenant with the greater by giving a tenth/tithe. In the New Testament, we are encouraged to add to that tithe offerings from a generous heart.
The good news about keeping covenant with God is that can always experience His best, especially in Christ, where Paul says, “For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.” This includes the promise of the tithe, by which Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and many others following were blessed.
God’s desire is always to bless His children, but sin and pride stand in the way and keep too many of His children from receiving His best blessings in our New Covenant in Christ. May the Lord give you insight as you read and seek to discover His covenant ways with His people.
Sincerely in Christ,
Ben
I am sorry Ben, you are fabricating reasoning for Jacob’s tithe out of thin air. You have no scripture to back up your claim. If you read Genesis 17:11, you will actually have scripture that will show you how any of Abraham’s descendants could participate in the covenant.
– jared
Steward,
I don’t understand. How is Gods church supported? How is the Gospel shared around the world? How do we act out what we believe in every area of our life without giving to God? If God is the same yesterday, today and forever. how do we show Him where our heart is unless we offer Him our treasure?
Billy
Billy,
No one said to stop giving, or to stop being sacrificial.
-jared
Steward,
Unfortunately, many people who call themselves Christians don’t give. I don’t even care what you want to call it (tithe) giving, supporting. The point is, its our responsibility to be apart of furthering Gods Kingdom on this earth in every way.
Billy
Ben, Jacobs name in Hebrew means a deceiver or Con Artist . Unless you are prepeared to do a thorough and unbias study of the law of tithing your views are nothing more than unbiblical teaching targeting lazy and immature christians for the purpose of trying to make a name for yourself. Read Galatian 3:10 and Galatian 5:4 then think about those scriptures until you get it. I know its hard for you because of pride and so much deception but try to think very hard the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write those letters. Paul mentioned circumsicion as an example of one of the laws given by God to the Jews. If you want to keep one you need to keep the whole lot. I mean burnt offerings, tithing food and animals raised and grown within the gates of Israel, sabbath, sin offerings cleansing ceremonies using blood of animals and the other 600 laws that was given through Moses.
In case you think you can ignore this, Jesus mentioned tithing as part of the Mosaic law in Mathew 23:23
Your arguments are based on your opinion not on scripture. Answer this question, Are we allowed by God to change any of the ten commandments in the past or even today ? Yes or No ?
Can you change the Levitical Priesthood to the tribe of Benjamin or Judah to minister at the temple ? Can you change Aaron and his sons ministry that God commanded in Numbers 18:1-3 ? If no is your answer then you are a liar and a person promoting deception.
Hi Sam,
Billy is at it again with his new friend Ben. To try and understand their views you need to ignore and disregard nearly the whole bible to try and see where they get all this unbiblical junk they are promoting here. My advise to christians is to read the scriptures and just let the Holy Spirit reveal to you the simplicity of the Word of God. You dont need a Phd to understand what it says just ask for a revelation of humility because that is the key to understand what the bible teaches.
Joel,
Billy never stopped teaching truth!!! And with Gods Holy Spirit guiding him, he never will stop. For someone who claims to be a Christian I don’t sense any love from how you respond. Just an observation! I do sense hostility, pride with a minuscule of knowledge and the need for someone to constantly affirm your position(even though its inaccurate). And by the way, with your twisted views please stop giving your advice. You are a Ministries worst nightmare, especially because of your unwillingness to separate yourself with a dollar for the sake of furthering the (Gospel) Good News of Jesus Christ. I don’t think Christians when standing before God will be sorry for giving too much to further Gods work, but I wonder about those that think they are saved that don’t know the blessing of giving! Billy
Billy,
Just because you pay your tithe for the windows to open financialy for you does not mean I am stingy. Take the lowly seat I will have to give God less if I pay your unbiblical so call tithes. Stop and take a break from trying so hard to be rich it stings. You only give for a reward or for the windows to open, so what do you give for healing, friends, a faithful wife,peace, rest ? Or is that extra charge. Wake up and stop being so stupid.
Jesus used a whip to throw out people who traded money in the temple, Did Jesus do that out of love or hate ?
Joel,
Stupid, wow that’s a great choice of words. Personally if you have to know, I give more than a tithe. I don’t give to get (as you so call assume). I give because I am a Christian, a follower of Christ. I give because I see the needs of people in and around the Church I attend and the various Ministries that I am personally involved in (not T.V. Evangelists or whatever examples you use). I give of my money(by personally buying and picking up the food) to the food band Ministry that helps feed many people in my community.If I am driven by greed and able to continue to help others then so be it (call it what you want). I believe the Word of God when it says to be a doer of his Word. You keep mocking people that are truly doing whats right, that’s fine by me. But please don’t act like you are on some crusade to help people, when all I hear is you trying to justify why you do not give. Please “KEEP YOUR MONEY” God doesn’t need it.
Billy
Billy,
Give but dont brag about it ,you have no idea about christians so you give a few cents and you think you have the right to compare what you give with other christians ? Take the lowly way or it will puff you up so bad you think that you should have an epistle in the bible to mention your name and your giving.
From your comments you sound like a very immature but very proud man, The Jews no longer tithe because there is no Levites on earth today, but tell me something why are so many of them very wealthy today ?
Do not let your left hand know the cents your right hand is giving, its pathetic…lol.
Hi Joel, Looks like we have some serious tithers who just want to pay their tithes from the goodness of their hearts. For example Billy who just want to open the windows of heaven or maybe stop the curse by paying money tithes. Arguing with an immature arrogant person will not get us anywhere. Sam dont waste your time with Billy he is so deceived it will take years to free him from the pride trip he is on .
Billy do you pay tithes only or you do burnt offerings and sin offerings ,sabbath and passover like Moses did when he was on earth ? What a joke
Where do these people come up with so much deception? . Pride is the worst enemy of any christian they will not think or consider other christians view and opinions but their own lies. I think some christians like Billy need to change their nappies at least once a day because it really stinks here now
Hey James,
Well put, I totally agree Billy needs to up his medication lol, no seriously James I’m hearing you bro, what annoys me is that they jump the gun and think that we’re against giving..I love the giving and sharing part, however The Tithing Principle is what I absolutely hate not for what is was actually originally used for but what these creeps are doing with it today..They actually have the guts to accuse others that are not under that curse to be holding back on giving only because it’s not the 10%…Billy is a SLAVE to it, however I must say he thinks he’s doing the right thing and helping others??If only he kept it to himself and between him and God…But he cannot help himself he wants payment now. Poor Billy hope that some how you can be set free Bill.Lol at what you said James that was so well put at the end there about the Nappies hahaha, anyhow I do hope Billy does not get offend, I hope he can cope with Rebuke and I hope he is blessed with all the Jewellery in this world, would’nt that be nice Bill? Then you can Tithe 10% of it and keep the rest Billyboy and just do real freaky things like start all over again bahaha..Love,peace and patience bro.
Sam,
Its amazing how these people who promote tithing manage to live here on earth . Imagine trying to earn everything you receive from God, and say they are saved by Grace. If we think about this more, its sounds like they are trying to pay for Gods grace too..lol
Billy,Ben and all tithers, do you ever get tired of trying to earn your blessings ? or are you all super heros…lol
Jesus came to GIVE us life not to SELL us life. Its free paid for by Christ Jesus himself. With His Grace everything is included salvation, peace,rest,healing,favour,finances and all other blessings ALL FOR FREE but proud and deceived people want to pay for it or sell it as middle men for profit.
Tell us Billy,Ben and all tithers (super heros) are you middle men selling Gods blessings or promoting for middle men for a quick buck….lol
I heard its good money to be made selling the gospel all you need is to be very greedy believe everything the pastor says without checking the bible and say you put God first espeacially your neighbours 10% of income and the blessing will overflow…lol
Sam, here is a new commandment Love your neighbours 10% income with all your heart mind and soul and his wifes income too…lol
Sam, Joel, and now the James show,
You guys think everybody that tithes is motivated be greed but let me tell you you guys are really the minority in what you believe. Actually, that,s what cults are built on. Charles T. Russell and Joseph Smith are great examples of people trying to push a certain theology.
Billy
Sam, joel and now James
Serious Givers to God and His work here on this earth!!!
Here is the Motive. To further Gods work here on this earth, that’s it nothing else. You guys are tripping hard!!!
When I start hearing views mixed with compassion and Love, I might believe there are people who know God personally and really want to help here!
Bahahahaha Billy is repeating himself again guys, could it be that he is breaking down like an old Radio crackling away….Move over Billy is going to save the world with his generosity….ARE YOU FOR REAL DUDE?? AND BY THE WAY BILLY WHO CUT YOUR HAIR??
Billy, Give to Gods work but leave the tithing laws alone you do not qualify to change it or your pastor whoever he is. Jesus did not change the tithing laws He cancelled it for a better covenant where you do not need to earn Gods blessings.
Stop being so proud and have a break from the fantasy world of being a super hero…lol
Hey Joel don’t you just love the 3 of them, we have a hat-trick Dean,Billy and Ben the flower pot men. Absolutely, Dean made me laugh when he said I would have to answer to God about trying to turn people away from TITHING, that was so funny, because i think the opposite and one day people like me and you Joel will stand before the Lord and receive Crowns, honestly i think we need to pray for these guys because as you said surely these guys Dean,Bill and Ben must be blinded that much by the constant In-Indoctrination they have been punished with for so long, no wonder they can’t be set free. This is exactly the reason why the top TV Evangelists are being investigated in the States right now because of the Prosperity Tithing Ministry, they have been exposed and shame on them, These people need to repent and turn to the Lord, I believe the Lord helps us in many ways , but I find it hard to accept that these PASTORS can get away with living this lavish lifestyle all on the false pretence. I am not one bit feeling condemned when I say things to these Vultures, they can say what they want however I and you know the truth.
Sam,
Who are you trying to convince? Ok, you have Joel in your sock, I’ll give you that. you guys feed off each other like two little kids. Who is talking about T.V. Evangelists? we are talking about church’s that are building Gods Kingdom. Church’s that are teaching Gods Word, Church’s that are helping the poor and the widows. If you claim to be a Christian and you don’t give, you are a clanging symbol. True (Gods) love is demonstrated in many ways including giving!!! How long have you guys known the Lord anyway? My guess is a very short time, only because or your unwillingness to do what God does best (GIVE)!!!!
Billy
Billy,
I’ve devoted this blog to not only stop tithing but also to enhance sacrificial stewardship. I hate arguing semantics, so i also care less what you call your giving as well. Nonetheless, I have to stand up for what the bible teaches; and i don’t believe it teaches we must give a minimum of 10% of our increase. Almost every example of tithing in the bible can be used to refute the minimum standard claim.
– jared
Steward,
I also care less, accept its your lopsided and inaccurate understanding of what the bible teaches. Tithing was established by God as a principle of giving Him of our first and our best and I don’t think you have the authority or the power to stop it. You go round and round in an endless circle of opinions and out of context verb-age. Until you can come up with a better plan than God has set up to provide for His work, I’ll follow His ways!!!
Billy
Billy,
There is NO (none, zippo, zero, nadda) biblical record, command, or example found of anyone giving a tithe of the ‘first’ or ‘best’. Come on! how direct can God be when he states in Leviticus 27, “He shall not inquire whether it is good or bad”. Seriously, if you can’t see your error here, then I’d be more concerned about your other beliefs about the doctrinal ‘essentials’.
– jared
Jared, Out of context. It really sounds more like a revolt that’s being led here. On a mission to try to stop something that’s been in existence and a blessing for those who obey, for thousand of years. many on this blog that are also deceived have no clue to what Gods word says about faithful giving, nor do they share any Godly compassion. It seems like I’m in an elementary classroom with some kids that only know how to call names. Love is absent!
Hey Billy,
Have you not read, the Gates to life are narrow, but the gates to destruction are wide. Who are you?? any relation to the Pharisees of old? Billy it seems to me that you keep tripping over your own Tongue, you keep digging your own grave…I haven’t seen a sign of maturity in you at all. Now to put it simple, I have absolutely nothing against giving at all, oh and also sharing. I absolutely hate and detest TITHING..It is not for any new Christian Billy? I am not and have not during this conversation professed to be a Bible scholar, I don’t know it all but i do know that what you are teaching is in error and you must stop!!!!!!! Give 50% or 100 % but don’t use that word Bill (tithing) cause it is not associated with Christianity or if you like New Christian Church other than the False Christian Churches..That word Tithing is mentioned in the New testament however it’s not taught to the Christians, that was for the Jews..Why are you even trying? because you’re a try-hard, boastful, blind-man trying to be a stand-out…If you were my son I’d Slap you billy real hard..Anyhow a religious person such as you won’t ever listen to us (Sam,Joel,James) let alone God.Billy i told you once before some time ago “Billy Don’t Be a Hero”, you can practice and preach all you like and I know in my heart that I am in the family of God and I speak with the Lord on a Daily basis, I don’t feel condemned or lost, I have no conviction when i talk to people such as you and goibg against your “Bless Me Club”, repent Billy and you too can be set free, God Bless you Billy and i sincerly hope that you get over the offence and hurtful pain that you are going thru…Jesus Loves you too billy.
Joel,
Show me where Jesus said not to tithe or not to fully support His work on earth. Its going to take more than your hair brain ideology to stop people from giving according to Gods word. What else don’t you agree with in Gods word? I will obey God not modern day want to be Bible answer boys.
Get a life, and use your limited energy in truth instead of spreading lies and cheapskate theology!!!
Maybe there are issues in your life that need to be dealt with, like forgiveness, and lack of compassion. What I hear you doing is judging people because they don’t agree with your twisted views. Christians that know and follow Gods word in giving and that have been involved in ministry hope people like you stay home in your little gang of studies. Your thinking is what is stifling the spreading of the Gospel.
Dean,
I said give your money to Gods work but leave the tithing laws alone you do not qualify to change one little part of it . When Jesus died in Galvary God himself tore the veil in the temple. He cancelled the old covenant and all its requirements for a better one with Christ precious blood. Do you want to continue with the blood of animals or maybe you want to die for our sins you pathetic arrogant little man…lol
You can not promote anything under the old covenant because it makes Jesus sacrifice as something common.
Just because we are against unbiblical tithing you promote does not mean I dont give to the work of the Lord. Giving your cents does not mean you can brag about it you rude puffed up little man…lol
Read Galatian 3:10-12 Very Very Slowly until you get it
Do not compare your the cents you give with other christians you have no idea who you are talking to. I suggest to take the lowly ways of Christ it will give you peace.
Dean,
What makes you think we are against giving money to the Lords work ? I agree with Joel, Sam and all those who are exposing the “tithing lie”. Leave the Mosaic laws alone you do not qualify not now or ever. Give by all means give 90% of your income but please leave tithing laws alone it says food for crying out loud. I seriously think Billy,Dean and all the unbiblical tithe promoters are so cuaght up with this “Tithing Lie” they are willing to give 99% of their incomes to show how spiritual and great they are in their own eyes.
Dean, Do you practise sabbath, burnt offerings and sin offerings too, with the blood of animals ? Do you kill people who break the sabbath or commit adultry in that fantasy world you all live in ?
Be honest its ridiculous,stupid and uninformed to even consider it you arrogant deceived individuals puffed up with pride.