This article was introduced to me in a tithing discussion group. You can read about the article here. Of course, most of you have heard about the senate investigations into the TBN preachers. CBS News in Dallas states, “the first time, officials with Kenneth Copeland Ministries are talking publicly about an investigation into the church’s spending habits.”
hmmm, this ought to be interesting, listen to what John Copeland, Kenneth Copeland’s son and Chief Executive Officer of Kenneth Copeland Ministries said, “Where in the Bible does it say you should have watch dogs and judgment groups that watch over ministries?” Ooooh! if only I could have been there to respond. I would have said, “where in the bible does it say that you need millions of dollars to fund an empire?” The only thing the bible talks about in the New Testament is helping the poor, distributing to all and paying for the needs of ministers. Sorry people, John Copeland is an idiot. There. I said it. He’s an idiot!
Copeland jr. said: “How can you reach the world if you don’t have money to do it?”
My Response: Listen dude. I understand the importance of money, but I do believe that all it takes are willing lives who are ready to sacrifice themselves, not their money. There is so much more that this guy says. He should keep his mouth shut. Let’s go on. . .
Copeland Jr: “A lot of people may see that[private Copeland jet] as a luxurious lifestyle, but when you hit 19 countries in 12 months, what are you going do that with? A jet is a tool. It’s just a tool to use in ministry.”
My response: Sure it’s a tool for you, but it’s not a tool for the poor. Besides that, I agree that’s pretty much all your doing is hitting other countries up for their wealth as well.
Copeland Jr: “There’s a lot of doctrine that teaches that you’re not a good Christian unless you’re poor,” Copeland said. “But, that’s not our doctrine, that’s not what we believe.”
My Response: HUH? what doctrine are you talking about? I’ve never ever heard of that. I don’t know about you but monks are non-existent in this era.
Copeland Jr – in response to why his parents preach theprosperity gospel and live in a mansion: “It would be kind of silly for that to be your doctrine, but then put your pastor in a 2,000 square foot house,”
My Response: That’s right, I forgot, the greek word for manger actually means a mansion. For all the talk Jesus had about heaven and the kingdom, he sure lived it here on the temporary earth. would you consider Jesus poor?
It’s a bad idea for Jr. to open his mouth in public. If you think the Copeland’s are God’s children, then I’m sorry, I think they are pharisees, they are wolves in sheep’s clothing, and they are vipers.
Please see “A Call for Discernment” by going to http://www.justinpeters.org. Justin is an evangelist and in addition to expository preaching, also holds seminars on the “Word of Faith” movement. He has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
You can view his brief overview of the misleading Word of Faith movement given at Southwestern Theological Seminary here:
http://www.justinpeters.org/demo.htm
He gives a great deal of insight into Kenneth and Gloria Copeland here…
To God be the glory!
Isn’t the “Christian” way of doing things much easier than that of a true businessman? Instead of building a legitimate business with products or services that bring value to the marketplace, you just work a couple hours a week and hit people with the “guilty if you don’t tithe” story substantiated by a “cut and paste” contextual Bible.
Laypeople give out of fear of God and man-induced guilt in exchange for what?
We need to rethink our priorities.
Are you kidding? the BIGGER picture has to do with your first amendment rights? This investigation is being led by unbelievers in the government. How else do you expect the unbelievers to act? As unbelievers, they are acting as they should. The same reason, a child acts as a child because they are a child.
Copeland on the other hand, is a hypocrite, and is leading people down the wrong path to God. That is the bigger picture. I hope you realize that the bigger picture is not how your constitution is upheld, but how God’s word is upheld.
Copeland is standing up for what he believes is right, and that is the future of our First Amendment rights. That is the bigger picture here – Grassley should NEVER be given that kind of power.
I do not think that Copeland’s teachings in this situation. I personally am a believer, and I don’t agree with all of Copeland’s teachings. However, I do see where the results of this investigation will affect me and all other organizations in the future.
Other Christian leaders ACROSS denominational lines have begun to stand behind Copeland. They also have recognized how the outcome of this situation will affect many more than just Copeland.
I am not a follower of Copeland’s, but I do have an interest in my Constitutional rights as well. I think he is definitely doing the right thing in this situation, and should continue to stand against Grassley’s request. There is NO need for Grassley to have access to ALL of the information he requested.
There is nothing in the constitution that prohibits investigations. The constitution does however prohibit the seizure of personal records without a warrant. But Grassley hasn’t forcefully seized anything yet, so he hasn’t done anything illegal. Grassley asked for the documents, and some of the institutions freely gave them up. So far Copeland has exercized his constitutional rights and said, “No”. I have nothing against copeland standing up for his constitutional rights though. of course i do think he has something to hide. He might not think he does, but i’d be ashamed of my finances if i was him.
The best of both worlds would be if the Church put more pressure on this guy and exposed his false teachings rather than the government doing it.
-jared b
I think the other issue here is that Grassley requested for SPECIFIC names, address, and figures relating to ANYONE that has stepped foot in Copeland’s pulpit. It makes me stop to wonder what he has planned in the future for these people – freedom of association issues lurking?? There is currently no evidence of any wrong doing, and IRS investigations have been passe successfully in the not so distant past.
I have to agree with the fact that there is no evidence against these groups. There has been lots of hearsay but nothing concrete. On top of that, the odd thing to me is that not one of these ministries followers has complained and requested for any kind of action. Grassley has something further up his sleeve if we don’t watch it I think.
It seems that Copeland is picking up more support. Thank goodness. Glad to see that people are realizing that this could affect all of us. Grassley’s requests were outrageous, and he has NO right to have access to such specifics.
Copeland is continuing to gather support, and hopefully the tides are turning. More and more people are questioning Grassley’s requests and his intentions. I think that the fine line is walking does not need to be crossed. If it is, it could lead into other types of issues with our freedoms and rights. I can only imagine what he may do next. Surely the right decision will be made and Grassley will put in his place.
Despite not agreeing with Copeland’s teachings, I think that he has an extremely valid point here. This situation is one that could have severe effects on the future of some of our constitutional rights. This is where my interest lies in this investigation. To each his own as far as these groups’ followers and contributors. They make their own choice to support these ministries.
Grassley is pushing the limits. I am still at a loss as to why he wouldn’t try to use the IRS first? It seems that he would be able to get all of the information he requested through them in a fairly decent amount of time, instead of all the publicity that has followed since this investigation began.
I have been observing this situation for months. It seems that some kind of decision would have already been made by now. Especially since Grassley has threatened the use of subpeonas, and things seems to be at a stand still. Copeland is going to fight till the end, and his support continues to grow. More and more people are realizing how this decision will have an impact far beyond church organizations.
Please understand this,Jesus said there is no authority on earth unless its given from Heaven.That means any Government or anyone in authority.Paul said to submit to Government authority who rules over you.Lure of wealth and deceitfullness of riches can make christians compromise.Its very sad the more they resist the investigation the worse it looks for Copeland.
Morons being morons, copeland, dollar, falwell, robertson, and all the other ignorant pharisees out there.