Associated Baptist Press – Matt Kennedy
Rich pastors not common, but not endangered species
What a life to live. The luxurious lifestyle of being a pastor! Rich pastors will never be endangered. They will always exist. Why? I don’t know? Why do you think? Is it ok that some pastors are walking around with expensive watches, and suits? If one’s earned it, don’t you think that it’s okay for them to keep what they’ve earned? Why should everyone bash on TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, and Creflo Dollar? I mean, God’s given that to them, hasn’t he? They have a right to choose to keep that which God has given them. Why should we make them feel guilty about taking so much, when we’ve taken so much in our own lives. Of course not as much as them in the amount, but proportionately, we have. At least I feel that I have.
I wish sometimes that there was no such thing as “things”. I wish it was just all dirt to me. What if they look at that stuff as dirt? Do you think that some of those pastors that live in mansions could actually be right? Do you think there’s anyone that can be justified for what they’ve got? Do you think it’s okay for any Christian to live in any mansion? How much do you think is the right amount for all pastors to make?
This article does talk about tithing. but it mainly is referring to pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church. He lives off of a reverse tithe. That means he lives off of 10% of what he makes and gives 90%. You’ve gotta hand it to the guy for doing this. Do you think Rick Warren is challenging other rich pastors by giving a reverse tithe? I would think Rick Warren would have more authority in finances just because he’s shown that he’s handled the grip of money so well. On the other hand, when other rich pastors are preaching tithing, it’s hard to listen.
Fred says
Well I think it is ok for a person to live on what they are good at, didn’t the bible say if you live by the sorw you will die by the sorw. I believed it is the same as, if you preach the gospel you should live by the gospel. Now if you run a small ministries you will live acording it income, small car, small home, and etc. Why? because the people you are meeting with, you will dress acording to your surrounding. But if you were to run a big ministries and meet with well know people who are willing to invest into your ministry—or—O people don’t know that we should be in control of the enconomics that the people of the world can come to the Church and borrow instead of going to the bank. And sometime host people at home, give them ride, and etc. I believe you will have to meet their standare.
I have to Go, I will come back latter.
Jared Brian says
Thanks for the comment Fred. I like that you’ve come to see that the church should be used to give out loans. This is interesting. Not many people can see the vision that you are seeing. The truth is our nations would be in so much better shape economically if the Church took more responsibility for the welfare of people. Rather than the government doing so for us.
SM says
I don’t think that there is anything wrong with Pastors taking a portion of whatever it is that GOD has them take, if any at all. But it has to be according to what the Lord has them do. If they are just taking money that is suppose to go towards something else then that is a different story. If they are taking money when God is not having them do so then they will have to answer for that. But I think you had it right, these men and women have worked hard and not only bring a service to the people but do the service of the Lord and they should be a reward for that. How many times in the Bible did God bless those people who obeyed his word and did his will and brought forward his message with wealth? Several. God blesses those who carry out his work. Because it’s monetary that means it’s wrong? Come on, give me a break. God wants for his people to lack for nothing. That’s all his servants, including pastors. Most people look at this with an eye of carnality, they do not understand the way the Church or things of the spirit work. They see a Pastor with a mansion and think “Oh, that’s so wrong, he should give that money away” but how can the Church function, how can ministry continue to spread and grow if Churches didn’t take tithes or offerings? The focus is all wrong people look at what the Pastors have not at the people who give the money or the reason why they give the money. Not only is it about perpetuating the ministry but also about making a personal sacrifice. God wants to know that a person will make the sacrifice of something that for us means so much, money. Giving is a test of faith. People think that you shouldn’t have to give money but it is so much more important than “oh, you just helped the pastor buy a new car.” It’s symbolic of so much more. Now outright lying and scamming people is another story but those who do such will have to answer to God for that.
And further, there’s a certain amount of example that Pastors set, if the congregation is steady going to a church where the pastor is poor or doesn’t APPEAR to be blessed then why should they believe that under his ministry that they can be blessed (not to say that the appearance is the thing to look at because it isn’t) but that is the way most people think. God has his Kingdom represented in a certain way, he his people to thrive financially just as people in the “secular world” do. The Church is the HEAD and not the TAIL remember?
And why is it a problem that a Christian should be rich? Christian shouldn’t be blessed financially because they’re Christian? Christians shouldn’t have material desires because they’re Christian? The problem isn’t having materials it’s placing those materials above God.
God is not raising up an army of poor servants, he just isn’t. Actors and actresses take money from their work, why is it wrong for a Pastor? Some people will do “reverse tithing” and that is great! But that is not for everybody. I think God has people do according to what HE feels is the will for their life. It’s different for different people. Having money doesn’t make you a hypocrite and it certainly doesn’t take away from the gifts God gave you for Pastoring or Preaching. Pastors tithe and give offerings too. Chances are they didn’t even make it to where they are without doing so. The bible says if you GIVE bountifully, REAP bountifully.
And NO, I am not a pastor. lol. I’m a 19 year old college student who has witnessed my share of churches and giving and the like. I understand the way it works and as a Christian hate to see people peg cast terrible things over the Church when they really have no idea how things work. But people will believe what they want at the end of the day so all I can do is provide my insight.
Jared Brian says
Thanks for your input SM. I don’t think its really our place to say this salary is too much or that house is too big. All i can say, is that if i was a pastor, my living would not be extravagantly above the average of the flock that i am feeding. I think another struggle would be that an extravagant wealth would be counterproductive to what God calls pure religion – to feed the poor and take care of the widows and orphans.
I’ve never been rich, so i wouldn’t know the personal experience or even arguments coming from rich pastors, but i think there is some part in me that wonders if something is not right with what’s happening.
Mo says
Well said. I believe we shouldn’t bother our minds in trying to put rich pastors down or defending them because we donot have a personal account of their life to know exactly if they live an extravagant life. If some pastors have mansions on earth here, is it detestable to the eyes of God? I don’t think so because Jesus has prepared for us mansions in heaven. If a pastor has a private jet is it unpleasing to God? I don’t think so because the jet would help him fly from one meeting to the other without the usual delays or check-in time with the public flights.
Where the problem lies is, the understanding they have in preaching what they preach. God is not a respecter of persons, so when He says he has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heaven places in Christ Jesus, He means we are all blessed. Now how to make the blessings materialize in our life is where believers get it wrong. There is a place for a pastor to ask from his congregation but the congregation should understand the scripture in 2 corinthians 9:7,8; 7- Everyman according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give Not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver. So believers give not because they are forced to, or they are urged to but because they love God and they give for the furtherance of the gospel. But if you are not versed with what the word says, you will not be giving with the right mind and again if you are not being fed with the truth then you donot have to promote that gospel which is not the truth. It has been perveted. You have to study the word and let the Holy Spirit teach you so you can know how, when and where to give so that it shall be given unto you in return.
Are we surposed to read the old testamant and present it to saints today as it was with the preasts in those days? 2 Corinthians 3:13,14 & 15
3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Malachi 1:1,2a- 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
1:2a I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
What was malachi saying here. Is this a burden of the word of the Lord to christians? Are christians asking God “Wherein hast thou loved us?” Malachi 2:1,2
2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Is God saying here that we christians are cursed? or Jesus Christ became sin for us, was cursed for us, forsaken for us and we are now blessed because of our unity with Him.
Malachi 3:10
Are we paying tithes to prove God if He will bless us? Then we donot believe Ephesians 1:3 and so we are already in unbelieve and we wunder why we donot look blessed, feel blessed and act blessed. If you donot see yourself blessed in the inside, then you can’t see it on the outside.
Remember, when you pray, believe that you have received it and you shall see it.
Thanks for this opportunity to share this knowledge with you. Jesus loves you.
amber says
it bothers me to hear such talk to rich pastors. the problem is people think God has blessed you with money. was Jesus rich? did he ever have a house of his own? or better yet a mansion? i’m blessed in a way many will never understand. give what you have and then give more. be like Jesus in all that we do… think of him in all things…
freewillgiver says
SM Thankyou for boldly presenting your opinion. SM I hope you expolore this blog and learn more about freewill offerings. Please write back and respond. It is true that many pastors work hard however most people are offended to see a pastor who is wealthy. People expect pastors to be sacraficing people like Jesus who made himself poor so that we might be rich. I am not offended if the pastor made that money outside of preaching and he is giving to the poor Like the real ST. Nicolace who people now know as Santa Clause. St Nicolace was a rich man who ended up giving away all of his money in secret ways to help people. He even bought slaves in order to set them free and this was unheard of in the Eastern Roman Empire
before 500AD when he lived. Christians are made most popular in the eyes of the world when they give wealth and suffer not when they accumulate wealth and live lifestyles of the rich and famous. The best Christians America has ever seen were the African American slaves. Their masters who were bad Christians were wealthy and famous but the Christian slaves are famous in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus lived in an impoverished nation and died the death of a slave because he gave everything away to set people free. All pastors should be like the best missionaries who are gennerally known for sacrafice. Pastors should all be like missionaries who live to give and the popularity of this kind of giving will spread the most glory to the church and Jesus its head. Missionarys, the Christian Black slaves of America, Santa Clause, and Jesus have the kind of good reputations that all Christian pastors should strive for. This is nearly the opposite of rich and famous wealthy pastors fame.
freewillgiver
Daniella Marie says
I don’t think it’s wrong in the least to use a portion of what the church has given them, because, the government does not support them and they do need to live just like everyone else needs to live. This is their “calling” so it’s like anyone else with a job/career. Having a nice home/car are all fine and dandy, nobody would be cruel enough to begrudge them that. I do however draw the line when I see Preachers who own quite a few mansions, jet around in private jets and I’m not talking one jet, I’m talking a “few” more than necessary! They drive a Bentley/Rolls, have maids and when travelling, they stay in extremely expensive penthouses. I can go on, but time is “money” after all. I find it quite disgusting that they have church loads of people who tithe faithfully/cheerfully and they still struggle with bills, are barely hanging on, can’t go on vacations, etc…. but mind you, they keep hearing to “hold on”, it “will happen”, just “give it time”. Oh yes and this is classic. One time one of them was preaching “loud” and clear, to STILL tithe if you’re ever on the streets, because you’re honouring God. Oooook, people on the streets are living out of garbage cans, trying to stay out of harms way and living in card board boxes, I highly doubt they’re going to be thinking of much more than the current situation they are in, which by the way, they were told it would never happen as long as they keep “tithing”. I’m sure you see where I’m going with this. I just wish I was in a position, at this moment- I will be someday – to be able to help the homeless/less fortunate, the ones certain Preachers “seem” to neglect on their way to the Mercedes dealer. They can’t preach one thing to people then give them something else a few months later which is in complete contradiction. That not only causes people to stumble, they also start to doubt and many lose faith. What does the bible teach about, not causing any of his little ones to stumble! When in a position of authority, one must speak properly, always making sure it’s only GODS way and not just what they want to preach. On to a brighter note. As you had mentioned Pastor Rick Warren, J.C. Penney – the founder – did the exact same thing, 90% to the Lord and kept only 10% for himself and we all know how successful Penney’s is :)
Darling,MS says
I think that it’s wrong as to left shoes for pastors to get rich off of the church to be using the members of the church that way.Get a real labor job and stop milking the Lords people.
mb says
real labour job! seriously!!!!!! you abviosly have know idea what pastoring a church is all about.24/7 is an understatement.my father pastors i know first hand your life is not your own.the church must vote on the pastors salary by law its recorded during open business meetings if the congregation deems that pastor worthy than thats what their worth god bless all the men and women in the lords service and bless those faithful and obedient tithers you cannot out give god.
smh says
I think balance is needed in this area. No church should want its pastor looking run down and worse off than them. Jesus had all his needs met, even to the point of creating a miracle to feed 5000 people. So at no point, should a Pastor be poor to prove anything to anyone, none of the 12 were indigent…God took care of them. With that being said, anything that takes away from the Gospel’s message and its spread, needs to be run from. Having a Jet and bragging about 10 cars when some people caught rides to church is insensitive and cruel. A pastor and his/her family should be well cared for. The only to stop some of this madness is for people to stop supporting those pastors who do go to far….remember Jesus when into the Temple and turned the tables over, saying that the House of Prayer had turned into a Den of Thieves! Balance I believe is the key to this issue. Having a nice car is not sinful, nor a nice home..and so many people are big Hypocrites! They will say all this and as soon as they get their hands on some money, they do some of the same things. Balance, Balance, Balance
Jason says
I have strong feelings about this topic. Personally, I don’t think there is anything in the Bible that teaches that Christians, and certainly not pastors, should strive for wealth. Certainly, the Bible teaches against the pursuit of wealth. I don’t care that there were rich kings that were also Godly men in the Bible. We aren’t intended to cherry pick from the Word to fit our greed, we are to model our lives after Jesus, who clearly lived a simple life free of greed. It’s a horrible example to have people like Joel Osteen and other mega-church pastors living their lives in the materialistic splendor of rappers and rock stars. There’s no need for it, and it sets a terrible example. God doesn’t give people big houses and expensive cars, greed does. God may grant people the intellect, leadership skills and opportunity to gain that level of wealth, but it the human decision to turn that into personal gain.
Toddo says
Thanks SMH,
I like your thought that we need to stop our supporting of those leaders who have gone too far into the lap of luxury. I must disagree with you about the disciples not being poor, however. The “pastors” of the early church took their wages in the form of room and board.
We all know the verse of Scripture that says
“YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” 1 Timothy 5:18
The “wages” the disciples and the 72 Jesus sent out for ministry received is described in Luke 10. This is how the early leaders were supported:
“Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.” Luke 10:7
The pastors/evangelists did not get “a paycheck” of money, but rather support in for form of food, drink, and lodging.
I am one who finds the wastefulness of many congregations deplorable. It is one of the reasons my wife and I left the institutional church in favor of a home church. Our financial giving is now directed almost entirely to feed the poor and help the needy. There is so much more joy in giving. And I believe that now God is more pleased with our stewardship.
Allow me to leave you with a question: Which is closer to the heart of God- fancy church campuses, rockin’ worship bands, etc; or to lift up the poor and oppressed with the love of Christ?
Hint…
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” James 1:27
Blessings,
Todd
JustThinking says
I fear most of us have (including those that are most, and those that are least spiritual) lost God in “religion”. With so many different voices telling people whats right and wrong its hard to hear the voice that matters… The voice of God.
Power corrupts all except God… We are blessed to be humbled.
Jared Brian says
JustThinking,
Your statement sounds like a general cliche, but is a very deep and thought provoking statement.
It makes me wonder with all the christian attention getters out there, have we grown our ears accustomed to hearing them instead of God?
smh says
Toddo, I see your point about the 12 only getting room/board. However if you look at the very scriptures you mention, its clear that its not sinful for a Pastor to receive a salary. And if wealth in and of istelf were sin, then how could there be people throughout scripture who attained it, and yet God was pleased with their lives (solomon, abraham, david,etc.). Being Rich is no sin, nor is being Poor. There are plenty of poor people who do not know Christ and never will. Its never about things, its about our heart for God. Which is why I say that those who clearly have gone over the edge, should not be supported. I happen to know many pastors who are not considered poor, but live in modest homes and have families to provide for. A salary to help provide for a family could not be deemed sinful. Greedy preachers will never go away, which is why the scriptures say not to go into this for “filthy lucre”. If your heart is for loot, then you will go overboard and sadly too many have.
Gashu says
We can name Abraham, David, Solomon and others from the old testament who have been blessed with wealth. But when we come to our very foundation, the new testament, Jesus Christ, and the apostiles we fined a different story. Stories that we need to follow. As well said by some of my friends here Jesus was not after wealth and he warned the apostles not to have more than what is necessary for survival before he send them for ministry. When somebody asked Jesus what to do Jesus told him to practice what is written in the Law. The person answered he had been doing it all his life. Then Jesus said well then you have one thing to do TO PERFECT your faith, go and sell all what you have, give it to the poors and follow me. That is what expected of all of us specially the pastors. We don’t need more that what we need for servival specially when there are millions of poor who can’t manage to feed their children. This particularlly is expected of the pastors as they are the leaders of the church. That is what the apostles of earlly church have done. Remember what paul said. he said they (the apostles) are entitled to take their share from their followers but they prefer to earn money by working by their own hands so that they will not be a burden to the followers. It is ok if the pastors take what is necessary for their survival and to support their family. But any thing more than that will make the followers to withdraw from the church.
We give money to expand the kingdom of God and the word of God not to expand the wealth of the pastors.
I think there should be some regulation as to how much the pastors should be paid and how the money need to be managed.
God bless you
Rick says
I am a caucasian who attends a mostly african american church in which one of my best friends is the pastor. I started tithing after going to this church and will continue to do so.
Mo says
Rick, it is not a sin to tith. I believe God has a purpose for all the things he commanded those to whom He did in the law. I would that you search this from the scritures. What was the purpose for which God gave the commandment to tith to the Israelites? Was Abraham commanded to tith? Was Apostle Paul, Peter, commanded to pay tithes, or did they ever mention about tith paying in their congregation? Giving to the furtherance of the gospel has always been of freewill and not a command.
Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils he acquired from the war he won to the king of Salem Melchizedek, why because God gave him the victory. In other words, Abram was blessed of God.
It is never said in the scriptures that the Apostle Paul taught in the churches in Ephesus, Corinth, Colosy, Thessalonica about tithes. Why is tithing a major theme now for the church to survive today? Is it not God’s church? Are we beginning to help God to survive his church or we should just preach the truth which sets people free who inturn give offerings and funds to the church. It is the truth of the gospel that sets you free from selfcenteredness and makes you think of others more than yourself. But sorry to say this, not many preacher do know the truth, so the preach only what they know. Amen
freewillgiver says
Gashu
I agree that christian leaders should be the leaders in suffering, patients, perserverance and should not expect money. Jesus gleaned from the fields and had no place to lay his head at times because he was like John the baptist. Christian leaders should be the most like Jesus and Jesus never asked for money for his ministry from what is written.
That is faith not expecting to get paid. I think the world respects the lowest paid pastors and those who do it for free over the middle class pastors. Christian leaders should feel most entitled to dicipline and Carrying the cross. Christian leaders should expect the fulless of Christ which comes though persicution and tribulation which worketh patience.
Rick
I am African American welcome to this Blog fellowship. This blog is not against giving but this blog is against the notion that “Christians must give ten percent to their local church or be in sin” Christ is in us so wherever we are we are the church and ready to do ministry.
Tithing was one form of giving commanded by Moses in the Old tesement. Tithing is not a new tesement command. All christians are priest so all have ministries.
I recently made the commitment continue to fellowship regularly but to stop attending church and start being the Church. Give but please do not tell others that they must tithe this is more than What Jesus commanded.
smh says
One size fits all answers are can never fit every situation. What about the Pastor who has young children? He would be in sin to receive a salary to support them? Of course not, since the new testament says that one who doesnt take care of his family is worse than an unbeliever. Its the abuses that are an issue. The disciples were taught by Jesus to receive offerings as they traveled…how else did they survive? So when you believe that a Pastor must be “free”, then you discount too many scriptures that say otherwise. Greed and Abuse is the issue, not the receiving of a salary, and/or offerings are any other type of support. The New Testament doesn’t command Tithing…but it says that we are to give as the Lord has prospered us and to also give as we have purposed in our hearts. For some that may mean giving 10% or more to the work of the local church. Again no one answer fits all, b/c circumstances are different for everyone.
freewillgiver says
smh
I agree one sise will never fit all. I think that most Christians against forced
Christian money tithes are not against ministers with a salary. We don’t mind missionarys, Christian artist, and Christian schools but if these groups said that All christians must give 10% of there cash to our ministries or be in sin then we would be against them.
Point number One is that saying Christians must tithe or be in sin is the issue. Some of the anger you will see on this site and in the minds of anti- tithers is the hurt of being ripped off by the tradition of the tithe wich was not preached against in thier former churches.
Most of us love the ministers and ministries who preached the lie of the Christian tithe but we mainely want to end the tithe tradition coersion. I feel for you friend you are an honest person Smh. Jesus bless your ministry so you can do it honestly with a good concience.
Volentary tithing is not what is preached in most Evangelical Christian churches and certainly the tranition of tithes are not preached against in most Christian churches. The “10% must go to the local church” is what we are mainly against not volentary giving.
Smh even if I opened a church building tomorrow and christians came and I never preached money tithing there would be many who gave out of guilt giving to my ministry 10% just becase I had an offering plate. To be against the tradition of tithes one must be hostile against it including the notion that all christians are not equal ministers.
Once all christians in a given place Know that they are all equal ministers if they decide to pay for a Christian leader that is quite ok. They are giving freely. I pay for Christian film, Christian music and Christian Schools along with giving some to other fellowships I visit. My felloship has no offering plate the leader expects us to give to our own missions. I love Church buildings and youth groups but I mearly hate the lie of forced Christian tithing.
I still give to some churches when I attend even if they preach money tithing. The salarys become terrible when they are connected to the lie of the Christian tithe. The lie is that Christians must or be in sin without that I don’t think that 95% of anti tithers are against Christian paid leaders.
We are not against proffesional missionaries and christians but mailly against forced tithing and the notion which comes with it that all Christians are not priest and fellow ministers.
It is the evils of the standard traditional tithe that this blog is against not paid ministers. It is the notion that Christianity cannot operate with free ministrers that we are against and the notion that all Christians are not priest.
Christ in you Smh
smh says
I have been in churches that teach both…you must tithe and others who said you shouldnt. I think either is wrong—it should be based on your ability and your desire, not some prescribed formula. The churches that teach that you must, often are the ones, who don’t account for all the resources that come in. Likewise those that say “it doesnt matter, just give whatever”, can make it unimportant to support God’s work. Jesus said where your treasure is, your heart is there too. So the balance is what’s needed—I have been on both sides—never Tithed or giving—and always tithing- I have found that the key is my heart toward God and his work. This translates into me wanting to do my part to advance Godly causes. Those who abuse God’s people for money, will be rewarded at the appropriate time. Still, we cannot use that as an excuse to opt out when it comes to supporting ministries, which at times include the Minister. No one stopped supporting any other industry, because the CEO was corrupt. Why then do we have to constantly beat people up for supporting a minister. Balance is the key, that I know I missed for years…hopefully, just hopefully I will get it right (smile)