5 Roadblocks to the Tithing Truth

Through the years of debating and writing about tithing, I’ve come across many people  that seem to be almost persuaded about the truth of tithing. But there’s always one or two things that hold them back. So what is it about tithing that neutralizes scriptural truth and keeps them from switching teams? These reasons could be roadblocks to accepting the truth from anything. Maybe you thought the color of the sky was actually red, until someone told you it was actually blue. What emotions did you experience that could have stopped you from believing the truth? Here are 5 reasons why it is so hard to let go of the tithing practice.

1. INSECURITY- Tithing comforts us with predictability, simplicity, and safety.

A frequent question many want to know is where would your church get money if there was no command to tithe? Would your lights be on? Would your heat be working? It’s hard for tithers to grasp the idea that the Church can survive without a mandated tax upon the people.

Tithing’s simplistic nature seems to be an impossible formula to miscalculate. I mean, how hard is it to figure out 10%? Tithing’s simplicity is a strong reason why many are hesitant to let go of its practice. As a side note, i don’t believe that tithing actually  is simple. Too many questions about tithing on the gross vs net, or tithing on retirement accounts, gift cards, bonuses, birthday presents . . .etc, etc, etc (you get the point).

Giving 10% seems to be a safe standard that consistently earns God’s favor (or so it seems). if you give at least a tithe, you should be safe right?  Many believe that the tithe puts a hedge of protection over them.

2. DOUBT – How could so many other Godly people be so wrong for so long?

Granted, that question is worthy of an explanation. First, if history has taught us anything, it’s that we can’t rely on precedence to determine how we should operate. Second, there are hundreds of denominations that all have a distinguished set of differences, which means that the majority of the Church is wrong about some of their practices.

Since most of us rely on church practices to dictate our beliefs, our faith lies in what  the church has practiced over the last couple of centuries, rather than relying on scripture.

3. FEAR- Fear of being wrong and fear from peer pressure

So many of our friends and family still tithe. Our  pastor tithes. All the deacons and elders tithe. All the ushers tithe. Even our Sunday school teacher tithes. What would everyone think if you told them you didn’t believe in tithing? I didn’t want anyone to think that I’m a backsliding Christian. It’s only human to not to want to be judged about your faith.

I struggled with being wrong about my stance for a long time. What if there’s something i was missing? What if i was totally wrong about tithing? I’m human, so more than likely i fouled up somewhere in my analysis. This is probably true, but there’s so many others out there that have got our backs.

4. IGNORANCE – They don’t know how to be anything else besides a tither

Their whole lives they’ve been tithers, so how do you change the stripes on a zebra? More than likely we have never experienced what true, new covenant giving should be like. We’ve been tamed and trained like a circus lion our whole lives, and we couldn’t operate in a jungle if our lives depended on it.

Once we stop tithing, we just stand there with our pants down, nibbling on our fingernails. So ultimately many of us just go back to tithing because we don’t know how to operate once we’re released in the jungle and given our spirit led freedom.

This is probably why many tithers believe that Spirit led giving is just like throwing darts at a board. They believe that Spirit led giving is just a guessing game that let’s you do whatever you please without consequence. This is just plain ignorance.

5. PRIDE – The truth hurts

I remember my very first response to when i first heard that tithing was not biblical for the Church. I immediately defended tithing and I defended those who taught me tithing. There’s just no way i could be wrong. At that moment, I felt I knew scripture like the back of my hand. I was definitely right, and the other person who questioned tithing was definitely wrong. So of course, with my pride at full steam, i scoured the scriptures to prove my adversary wrong.

Boy, was I in for a rude awakening, and my pride was hurt when i had to concede that i was wrong. I tell you that once i found the truth about tithing, i looked at what i knew with a whole different light. I had an open mind about anything i thought was truth. I began looking everything up in the bible. I never ever trusted my instinct again. I began to listen to theories other than my own. Luckily i actually studied scriptures rather than let pride take my stand for me.

Conclusion

How did i come up with this list of 5 roadbloacks to tithing? Well, these feelings are what i felt when i was contemplating the truth about tithing. I have had to come face to face with each of these emotions. I had to confront each one of them in order to fully believe the truth behind tithing.

What were/are your feelings when you were dealing with the truth about tithing? Have you felt anger, bitterness, disappointment, or anything else? Was there any other doctrine that you felt deceived about? What was your reaction to the truth then?

Jared Bartholomew is the author of www.tithing.com. There are over 300 articles written on research and reviews about tithing information.

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42 comments on “5 Roadblocks to the Tithing Truth
  1. rory says:

    Very good article. Take away the pillar of tithing and the lack of faith in God’s ability to provide is revealed.

  2. Victor says:

    Excellent post Jared!

    After debating in the CARM forum with WoF people, I know first hand all these points are very true!

  3. Sean says:

    I went through all of these feelings as I came to the truth. I’ve seen lots of people never make it past either of these roadblocks. They remain bitter, unable to congregate with fellow Christians without fighting.

  4. Musa says:

    you sound like someone who’s been duped by the church, if so… sorry my man. or is it that you are some other greedy dude who’s jealous of the church and how it gets money and you are someone who has never been in this setup and are just speaking from the outside view.
    well, let me tell you something; the church, the irs etc… don’t make you poor but it’s just that you’ll be poor already and what they just do is put up a challenge in your life to work a little harder and obtain something bigger.
    if they take your 10% what they are saying is; see how you’ll survive with the 90% that’s left and if you find it hard to live by such then pull your socks up and the next month let’s see how you’ll survive after we’ve taken 10% off your improved harvest, and if you still struggle then you need to push further. soon you’ll get to a point you get rich, not by magic or rewards from the church but from your own hands and work.
    but it doesn’t mean you stop tithing once you think you are well off, those 10% deductions will keep you on track all the time….
    food for thought man, better stop thinking in the negative and focus on the strength within

    • Abel says:

      Mr man you might be wrong because you did not explain in line with the bible. Are now saying that we should still sacrifice of burnt offering,

  5. Freewillgiver says:

    Musa thank you, and money tithe teaching friends thank you for your studies in this web fellowship. What about Christian freedom in Jesus? The American slaves were faithful to but their Christian brothers kept them in bondage for 400 years. Good deeds are often not repaid on earth. Deuteronomy 14:26 tithes were for the poor and those with less land in Israel the Levites, and always food. The beer tithe is an example. Tithes made the poor happy. The money tithes of today give 10 percent of money to preacher’s ministries. The poor do not drink wine and strong drink to praise Jesus under the current system. We are all priest do you understand this Musa?

    Preachers who expect money tithes from other Priest teach money expectations and demands. How can one relate well to one whom you owe money? Preachers become lonely and with poor relationships with others. It is better for people to ask to support a ministry then to demand by preaching a money tithe system. I don’t mind well paid Christians I mind guilty Christians and leaders who expect others cash. This is not healthy for loving relationships in Jesus. What do you think friend.

    Christ in Us

  6. David says:

    I felt bad about hammering people to “tithe” and I was angry with myself for ignorantly parroting others (tithing arguments) and not studying myself. Now I’m stunned by how many folks refuse to even consider that this “tithing” doctrine may be completely wrong.
    .-= David´s last blog .."Such as…" (still funny 3 years later) =-.

  7. Gina says:

    I have been a Christian for 25 years. I worked as a missionary and visited hundreds of churches all over the world. My husband taught tithing for years as well. I’ve heard it all….believe me. I recently found my spirit grieved by the tithing message. You see the churches have become big businesses neglecting the simplicity of building Christ’s church not buildings but PEOPLE!!!!

    I began to question everything and sure enough another ordained minister friend of mine has researched this topic in great measure. The fact is the church is in error feeding the pride of pastors, and the fallen nature of greed.

    For the few who hear from the Holy Spirit and take the time to really do as the Bereans we will not find ourselves cursed with the curse….Ridiculous!!!!!!

    In short the hardest thing about understanding the principle of giving from the heart leaves one a bit on their own because most churches have fallen for this plot of the enemy.

    • eddie says:

      wrong reply really confused on tithing always have and gave over now i was blessed with money lot of head aches now i give what i feel in my heart but i feel like things are hard to come by i dont feeled blessed in things that i do i not saying GODhas not provided but seems like now when i try to do something i only stop tithing 3 to 4 years ago anyone feel are can comment

  8. Gina,
    I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for your short testimony.

    - jared
    .-= steward´s last blog ..If Tithing Looks Like it & Acts Like It =-.

  9. Musa says:

    So what are you implying? From whom did tithing originate and why?

  10. Freewillgiver says:

    Musa friend giving is good. Tithing food was demanded and law for the Jews under the law of Moses. Tithes is history.

    This demanded money 10% tithe system taught by too many believers in Jesus is making preachers comfortable. Jesus wants the greatest to be the servants. One cannot be a very lowly servant if others must give you 10% of their money.

    Preachers should ask for money this is the servant way not expect money like kings. We all are priest and kings with Jesus in us. Giving is good expecting 10% and feeling like a king is bad. Be a preist servant and give where Jesus directs you friend.

    Christ in US!

    • Ken says:

      Perhaps we are looking at this incorrectly. Perhaps the tithe is simply a principle (not the law) that we are to adhere too. Like do not forsake the assembly together. Do we go to hell if we miss church? Of course not and I believe the same is true of the tithe. I believe the tithe is a principle that simply shows that we give God honor with the first 10%.

      Do we believe that the Old Testament is God inspired as is the New Testament? If so, do you really believe that the Lord just inspired some cute stories to amuse us or could it be that all has meaning and could or should be principles that should be applied to our lives.

      Listen folks I’m trying to take a common sense approach to this but I have to tell you that I have heard many folks (including pastors) say that No one going to tell me to give “MY MONEY” to any church “THATS UNDER THE LAW” WOW! Your money I thought all that we have is the Lords and we are just entrusted with it while were here. Sounds like like some greed going on and could possibly be border line coveting don’t you think?

      Anyway, I have not always been a thither but I think you have to look deep inside your own hearts and make that decision.

      Sometimes I believe that some folks to perhaps fill a guilty conscious look for some of what you have seen to support there own theory on why you should not tithe.

      You have to make that call just do it with a glad and cheerful heart.

      • Ken,
        If you read in the Old Testament the tithe was not given from the first 10%. Every tenth animal was counted and set aside. They didn’t set aside the first of the animals as a tithe, neither did they set aside the best looking, or healthiest. Read Lev. 27.

        - jared
        .-= steward´s last blog ..The Crack Tithing Addiction =-.

        • Musa says:

          Steward would you mind reading Malachi 1:6-14, maybe you’ll realize that God requires the best that comes from you. In the Old Testament the tithe was given as 10% of the first fruits. Well i’ve just been reading your blog “The Crack Tithing Addiction” and there are some misconception i noted.
          1: u got it wrong by comparing drug addiction with tithing “addiction”. people tithe through conviction not through a sense of guilty and all these statements you are bringing out are only meant to frighten the faint-hearted.
          2: You also wrote that “Just the thought of getting rid of tithing causes panic”. Let me point this out to you, it doesn’t mean that if we don’t tithe churches will die. the panic is not in the thought that the pastor is gonna die but in the sheer emergency of disobedience.
          3: You also wrote about money. In your exposition you relayed that the church is after money/ making money in order to survive. Allow me to lay it in a more detailed way why tithing is the thing.

          First I would like you to realize that there is a servant mentality and a son mentality (Heb. 3:5-6 NIV).
          A son attends to his father’s business as if it was his and can go even for extra/overtime without conditions. But a servant only sticks to what he sees in the contract. If a customer comes a minute after closing time he’ll either be turned away or else the servant would like it to be accounted for as overtime etc…
          So how you interpret the scriptures depends on your status “son/servant”. I have nothing against you as was Jesus when everyone else was going back home coz their “duty” of worshiping was over. He stayed behind bcoz he was doing his father’s business (Luke 2:49) and you can say all you can but that’ll be only so bcoz u’ll be venturing into a territory which is not yours. Be a son and you’ll understand coz as long as u’ve got this servant mentality u’ll never grasp the operations of a son. Need not I say more.
          Suppose you are holding two things in your hands and one is more precious than the other. If you give off the more precious one and hold on to the less precious, you are only but making it (i.e the less precious) the more precious. In the same way, if you give off the less precious item and hold on to the more precious, the more precious retains its status as the most valuable. Again still if you give off both items, the more precious will still remain the most prized (I hope we agree on this one).
          For Jesus to be here and die for us He came from somewhere and as we all know and believe He was more than rich coz we can’t measure it. (2 Cor. 8:9 You know how full of love and kindness our Lord Jesus Christ was. Though he was very rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty he could make you rich). He left all that He had and became poor and after that gave His life all for us. So, what can we say?
          (1 Peter 1:18-19) He came to give the most precious after giving off the less precious, and according to our principle (if they are both given off, the best remains the best). This was a perfect example laid down for us. Our prayers, fellowships and worship are more precious than any riches we might posses. Now, if are at liberty to give worship and fellowship but toughened at giving off what we term “our riches”, what are we professing? According to the principle, we are but sending out a clear message that our wealth is better than love, worship and true Christianity.
          (James 2:15-16 / 21-24). As much as we pray for people to be freed from poverty, we must be the first ones to provide what is needed. I highlighted to you last time that the church is the center where the whole of mankind has to find solace. (Deut. 24:19) “When you are harvesting your crops and forget to bring in a bundle of grain from your field, don’t go back to get it. Leave it for the foreigners, orphans, and widows. Then the LORD your God will bless you in all you do.” The church stands out for the society to have a better livelihood but the resources come in from the members.
          So why are Christians into tithing? It’s because they are giving the less precious (money) and the more precious (worship) in order for their worship to remain the more precious.

          • Musa,
            Thanks for taking the time to respond. In regards to tithing, God did not require the best. As Leviticus 27:32-33 states, “And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD. He shall NOT inquire whether it is good or bad

            1. Sure, my tithing addiction analogy breaks down at some point, for some people, and some situations. But for me, once i read the scriptures about the truth with tithing, i couldn’t break the habit without experiencing some symptoms similar to addiction.

            2. It seems that you disagree with my use of the term ‘panic’ and yet you claim that not tithing is an emergency!

            3. Matthew 17:24-27 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the [temple] tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the [temple] tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?” Peter said to Him, “From strangers.” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free.
            .-= steward´s last blog ..If Tithing Looks Like it & Acts Like It =-.

  11. blessed says:

    Hi,

    Ken, Jesus said in Mathew 23:23 that tithe is included in the Mosiac law and that is good enough for me unless you want to change what Jesus said.

    Christians still want to argue about the the law that enslaved the Jews.
    Go ahead and knock yourselves out but please remeber this YOU CANT MIX THE BLOOD OF ANIMALS THAT WAS USED FOR SIN OFFERING BY HIGH PRIEST WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS IN THE NEW COVENANT.

    Thats why the OLD COVENANT WAS CANCELLED for the NEW COVENANT WITH THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

    This is INSULTING, and IRRESPONSIBLE and STUPID to say the least.

    You can not mix THE TWO COVENANTS SO PASTORS CAN GET MORE MONEY. That is the same as selling drugs and stealing to build Gods church.

  12. Musa says:

    Thank you for your response. From the points you outlined I also have some queries:
    1: which scriptures did you read that are giving the “truth” about tithing?
    2: not tithing is not an emergency but an emergence (emerging) of disobedience.
    3: a) tithes are not taxes.
    b) from the very start Jesus eluded what others were practicing, the reason being that he is the one to whom the honor of those practices is directed. Matthew 9:15 portrays Jesus sidelining himself and those with him from usual practices only to the point when he would have gone. As a matter of fact Jesus was not against the taxing deal at all, he is the same who said “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar”. By not paying the temple tax he had to find out whether those people now knew who he was (it was not disrespect).

    • You are going to have to do your own study on tithing. I could spit out verses, and i have spit them ALL out at some point, or somewhere on my website. but my words and my interpretations are not going to show you anything. You need to figure out how tithing fits into the Spirit led structure of the New Testament Church. here are some things to think about when you study

      - Why did some Israelites tithe off their occupational increase, and some did not(Leviticus 27)?
      - There were times when giving from increase was not a tenth (Num. 31:9, 27-29), and sometimes it was a tenth. Why? (Genesis 14:20, Hebrews 7:4)
      - At one point it was voluntary (Genesis 28:22), and then at another it is mandatory (Leviticus 27). Why?

      - jared
      .-= steward´s last blog ..Charity: Who Cares? =-.

  13. Crystal L Whitfield says:

    I’ve learned more about what it really means to follow CHRIST than when I was sitting up in buildings relying on pastors and ministers to teach me. I’m so grateful.

  14. David Preston says:

    All I can say is this. I have spent too much time argueing about church doctrine. If you want to tithe go right ahead. As for me I don’t hold anything tightly in my hand. If I read my bible correctly the book of acts tells me all things are common. ( That’s 100%) And the new testament teaching is if I have two of anything I will give one. ( That’s 50% ) Another teaching is if anyone asks of you to give then give. If you are dumb enough to think GOD will make you rich by giving, keep it up, I’m sure you are blessing someone. As for me, love for others is more important than my bank account. If you think you will be cursed for not giving 10% you are cursed already by your lack of faith. GOD promised that the rightious will not be found begging for bread. Try living right by GOD and man and have faith in GOD. You will be content with what you have because you know that GOD has provided for you. And who knows better what I need than the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

  15. Crystal says:

    Amen

  16. Michel Bell says:

    Tithing fits North American me-centered Christianity which “tips” God and keeps 90% for “me.” As well, it helps the wealthy TV evangelist put folks in bondage. It feeds our greed by promising if we give we will get! The tragedy is in North America, the average giving is around 2.2%. Reality is God owns 100% –everything belongs to God (Psalm 24:1-2); we own nothing. So we must do as the early church in Acts and present everything to Him and allow, Him to show how we should distribute 100%! Grace giving is part of a surrendered life to Christ. It is clear in Hebrews 7 and 8 that Jesus’ death and resurrection fulfilled the tithing law. Equally, it is clear that Apostle Paul shows us the New Covenant giving standard in 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 … especially 2 Corinthians 9:7. The early church didn’t tithe. It is so obvious tithing doesn’t apply today, so for several years on my website (www.managinggodsmoney.com) I have offered, and am offering now $1000 to anyone who can show in a recognized Bible (BASB, NIV, KJV, Amplified, NKJV) where tithing was taught or practiced in the New Testament after Jesus death and resurrection. It’s not there? Tithing does not apply today. Proponents must read the Bible in context, especially Malachi 3:10 which referred to priests who were disobeying God. Folks, do you know there were three tithes totalling 23.3%? And the Mosaic law referred to Israel only and to agricultural products and livestock only … not money? Jesus’ death and resurrection removed the need for priests to intercede on our behalf! Thanks for this article: see verse for three tithes for 23.3% here: http://tinyurl.com/33oj3gz

  17. Suzy says:

    Be careful that you are not trying to be justified by works and neglect the gift of Grace (free unmerited favor because of the payment Jesus made on the Cross).
    According to Galatians 5:4 you may not even be saved if you are trying to be justified by keeping the law!  The Levitical law was a whole package of 613 laws, not just tithing.  All had to be kept as the terms and condition of the Covenant with God. Incl. Circumcision and Sabbath rest on SaT. NO  ENFORCEMENT OF THAT! vERY INCONSISTENT!

    Galatians 5:4 ” You that seek to be justified by the law have been cut off and fallen from Grace: 

    • joel says:

      Amen,
       
      The truth will set you free if we are serious about Christ Jesus. Its sad to see so many christians who think that Gods grace does not include our finances .If money is not included in Gods grace, then that means we have to use the arm of the flesh to get it .

  18. I have always been a a giver even before I became a christian and joined a church that taught tithing 10% of my income. I did for a long time and found myself struggling to pay to the church out of obligation. But not having anything left for those who really needed, those that I had cheerfully given to in the past. I no longer felt free in my giving. I new this was not the way God intended for me to feel so I been to research the truth out about tithing for myself, through the word Of GOD and I also have come to the coclusion to no longer tithe under bondage but give freely.

  19. David says:

    Grace is not grace if you have to do something to receive it. Everything you receive is from GOD whether you believe or not. What you do as a steward of the things you posess is a mirror of your faith in GOD to provide for you. If your faith is in the law then you have faith in works. If your faith is in Christ then you have faith in his work that was completed for you and me. Christ became a conduit of the love of GOD to you and me.  That same love that flows through Christ should flow through us if we really trust in the saving power of Christ. Thithing is of the law and will always be a work of the law. Giving is a fruit of the spirit and trusting in Christ for our rest in this world. My question is this! What do you have that you will be sorry to leave when Christ returns for us?

  20. Crystal says:

    It’s funny how CHRIST fed 5000 people on one occassion then 4000 on another; and NONE of those people had to TITHE anything. The scriptures SPECFICALLY tell us that on both occassions, there was plenty left over. This was after the people had eaten as much as they wanted.

  21. Dave S says:

    Freewill, Spirit-led giving. Motivated by Love. Is best and proper.

    Tithing requirements tend to condemn. Those who “withhold” often suffer guilt. Simply terrible, and not holy.
    Tithing (pro tithing teachers)in our church today is the same as the teaching in Galatians Paul refers to when he addresses the circumcision requirement being laid on the believer.

    So many who want to destroy the beautiful gift of His grace with old covenant, inferior, nonsense. 

    OK, now I’ll just sit here and wait to be (falsely) accused of being cheap and coveting what is God’s . . .  

  22. Crystal says:

    That’s correct. They are just like the JUDAIZERS in Galatians (placing restrictions which are not mandatory) upon the people of GOD. How come the 4,000 and the 5,000 DIDN’T have to give 10% of their earnings or agriculture to CHRIST before he fed them those TWO times. The scriptures say that when they finished; there was A WHOLE lot more left over. If Malachi 3 meant what PASTORS teach it does then why wasn’t/isn’t (tithers) bank accounts overflowing with money? Just tell me that. Why? It seems that I’m in BETTER shape now then I was when I was tithing; eventhough I haven’t had a PERMANENT job in 4 years now. The LORD ALWAYS comes through. If something gets cut off; it gets cut back on in the same day. I mean, what’s going on here? HUH. Tell me……………… 

    • Al Sydney says:

      Hi Crystal,
      Thank God that you are receiving His Grace and a revelation of how freely He provides for christians. Christians and pastors talk about Gods grace but exclude him when it comes to money, It is an abomination to even try to earn his provision . Please continiue to live free from lies so that God will reveal his grace to you more and more . All these christians who promote tihting will never get it because Satan is a liar and a deceiver .
      They will say they tithe to help promote the kingdom but many tithe because they lust for money and suffer from unbelief.Many think they are honouring God but are afraid to find out who Paul cursed in Galatians 1:9
       
      Bless you.

  23. Dave S says:

    A favorite saying among many in my church (including the pastor) is “I can’t afford NOT to tithe.” Now seriously, this is nuts.

    Strange how they keep me around as a deacon even though they know my stance as a contra-tiher. 

    • Crystal says:

      Are you serious Dave S. I know they make these RIDICULOUS statements but, they actually keep you around when they know you don’t support this? WOW

      • Dave S says:

        Interestingly enough, yes, I’m still in leadership.

        Our church has gotten a pretty good hold of the grace message, but is steeped in 22 years of tradition.

        Change is happening slowly.

        When I was asked into leadership I accepted on condition of the church changing its traditional requirement that those in leadership refrain from alcohol use.

        I took issue with the policy and politely declined the offer to serve, but my head pastor said to wait a few weeks,

        Eventually I was called in and told that the traditional requirement had been eliminated as they concurred that it was not a biblical requirement to abstain.

        At the time I took the position I was a tither. Being called into leadership, however, I felt the need to dig even deeper into scripture; to rightly divide . . . .

        This led me to the realization that tithing is old covenant and not for the free believer saved by Grace.

        I think they keep me around because they see the fruit in my life that demonstrates that I live in Him.

        My pastor even mentioned that they have been looking at the whole issue of tithing.

        But tithing is a sacred cow, and I suspect that this is one practice that is not going away anytime soon.

        I wrestle with staying involved, but feel that I’ve brought some more light into a church that, while stuck in some erroneous tradition, might just, in fact, grow to be a truly Spirit led church in all areas, some day.

         

        • Musa says:

          This is a point where a good melody/record comes to a sudden screech in movies, coz someone just got off tune. Look what you’ve just done Dave, you’ve left your other siders with eggs on their faces. can’t u see just how lost you are? at first i was intrigued by your comments on tithe but i had to curse myself after reading this last comment of yours… Alcohol????? Lord have mercy! i wonder which “spirit” is gonna lead that church

  24. Dave S says:

    Musa,

    So sad to see that you’ve judged me to be lost. (Seriously). I did not say that leaders should be allowed to be drunkards. The issue of alcohol use is a hotly debated as tithing, to say the least. Just as I was led to the truth on tithing, my in depth study of scripture has led me to see the error in the legalistic nature of prohibition.

    I’m sorry that my “tune”  is not pleasant to your ears, but to suddenly grab your ball and go home over my stance makes me wonder how sincere you are about considering the possibility that there may be some truth in my position.

    I am saddened that our discourse has come down to your judgement of me as being lost. How can you possibly know this. This would tantamount to me stating that a donut lover is lost due to the gluttony exhibited in his or her excessive consumption of fat and sugar. The body is, after all, “the Temple.” And, indeed, this could be seen as a “stumbling block,” to the very many incredibly obese brothers and sisters under one’s leadership.

    The Bible is very clear on the requirements for Deacon. The elders in my church concur that I appear to have met each and every one. After much prayer and discussion the unanimous conclusion was that the abstinence requirement position of our church was not Biblical. (See Tim 3:8-13).

    I pray that this does not turn into a long debate on alcohol. My stance is quite firm as I’ve heard and considered every argument. Trust me. A very good, scholarly, book on the issue is Ken Gentry’s “God Gave Wine.” If you would consider an exploration into this with a possible read of this work, I’d consider that to be a very nice gesture on your part. At that point I would love to discuss it all with you.

    ps- please, Musa, do not ever curse yourself.

    Regards, in His name, Jesus, the Savior,

     

  25. Freewillgiver says:

    Dave S Thank you and Musa thank you for challenging because I feel you want Christians to avoid dangers. However friend Musa just as tithing debate is large it is true Dave S pointed out the drinking issue also divides many Christians. What has the Bible spoken? One side is more correct about drinking and tithes would you agree Musa and other friends? I went to a wine fellowship last night but I almost never drink wine or beer in my house mainly I drink while fellowshiping with other Christians.
    Wine tithes and fellwoship with Jesus?
    Thank you Dave, after reading your post a few weeks ago I did a bible study on wine to show to one of my Christian friends who objects to my fellowships regular use of wine in our gatherings. So many money tithe preachers also preach against wine using very few scriptures and then thousands get the impression the Bible is against wine plus we must give money to clergy. Jesus is a lot funner than most Clergy. The Bible 
    Is everyone familliar with these scriptures I wrote of please investigate to see if I am correct. Please check out the scripture Deuteronomy 14:26 to the end of the chapter, and ponder the freedom the Jews had with wine and strong drink and the freedom that Christians have.
    Jesus and Wine
    Jesus stated friends “it is not that which goes into a man that defiles him but that which comes out of a man that makes him sin’ including evil thoughts. Paul said do not let anyone judge you (as evil) due to what one drinks or eats. Musa friend do you not see that making additional rules on top of the Bible is the taste not touch not leaven of the Pharisees. Jesus came to the world eating and drinking but John the Baptist did not touch wine. Friends we know Jesus was greater than John was this accidental on the part of Jesus? Please friends examine the scriptures thoroughly before saying something is evil all the time. Musa and those who disagree please reply after researching the word on these issues.
    There is a time for everything that is not inherently sinful. In Proverbs 30 it states Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

    What do you think friends? In Deuteronomy 14:26 it states buy whatever your soul lusteth after including wine and strong drink. Isaiah stated come buy wine without a price and numerous scriptures state as a future blessing that the blessed will have wine. Numerous scriptures also state that not having wine is a curse. Yes the bible tells us to be on guard against the dangers of wine but most of the scriptures about wine are Jesus first miraculous telling anyone to forever avoid wine. The bible states that God who is one with Jesus gave man wine to make merry the hearts of men.
    Jesus 1st miracle = Wine fellowship
    Jesus first miracle was turning water into wine was this accidental? John 2 explained this might have happened after men had well drunk. People loved Jesus wine like the poor and the levites loved getting wine in Duteronomy 14 because wine often made good fellowship to praise the lord in the Bible. Jesus wine was better wine not grape-juice, according to the governor of the feast. Jesus stated nobody after tasting good wine wants the stuff that is worse. The Bible has enough commands to understand without making new man made rules for Christians. Please friends study to show yourselves approved. If anyone wants to challenge what I have written please do because I do not want to lead people astray however one side is more correct about drinking fellowship and money tithing. The Bible states Money is the root of all kinds of evil but money itself is not evil according to the word. Lusting for money tithes is a sin in my opinion Wine also can be used wrong as can just about everything in the world. Be not drunkards friends, but celebrating with wine is a normal Jewish and Christian activity.
    Christ in US. 
     

  26. Dave S says:

    @ Freewillgiver: nice post, and very much appreciated. You realize, of course, that someone will, no doubt, be quick to say “the wine referred to in the Bible was very weak, and not nearly as strong as today’s.” Now any research will quickly point to the fallacy of that old, tired, fallacy.” I’m actually dreading those inevitable arguments, and pray that commentators refrain from this supposition if they have not researched the topic. Just to, hopefully, put that argument to bed one need merely agree that the Bible warns against drunkenness. Obviously, people, this admonishment would not be necessary if the wine was weak.

    Anyway, thanks for moderating this, Freewillgiver. It’s so refreshing to find a forum that is regularly updated and kept relevant.

  27. Alisa says:

    hello every one look up TithingTruth.com and see what you think then ok enjoy reading

  28. jenesis says:

    Steward,thank and God bless you for unveiling the strange fire that was kindled by cyprian from north Africa that first enacted tithing into church and followed by seven-day adventist church that enacted even from produce to money and I pray that the veil on the faces of the many ignorant ones left behind should be removed as-well.

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